pegkerr | This is just . . . weird

It's certainly a doctor's job to let you know about conditions that threaten your health. The woman may have been as frustrated as angry.

I doubt that she was unaware of any extra weight she's carrying; being told what you already know isn't all that helpful. Many of us who are overweight feel nearly helpless in the face of the underlying emotional issues that bring on overeating. Being told that it threatens your life, and being told to diet, without being told how to do it successfully, can be enormously frustrating - doctors who don't understand this could improve by learning as much.

Being told that it threatens your life, and being told to diet, without being told how to do it successfully, can be enormously frustrating - doctors who don't understand this could improve by learning as much.

Agreed. I find the "how" immensely frustrating, and have tried many different methods. The only thing my doctor suggested as a way to lose weight was to try to exercise at least three times a week. She said that I should do research on diets and nutrition, or go to a nutritionalist, to find out what the best eating program is for me. My current diet is pretty common sense, actually; I *really* needed to cut down on my portion sizes. That's helped me a great deal.

And, as several people have pointed out below, there can be other physical conditions that contribute to weight, aside from and in addition to emotional issues.

It's all too easy to dismiss any compulsive behavior as an issue of character or will power; if it were a simple matter to just 'put down the fork' there'd be far fewer people with weight issues, and if it were simple to quit, there'd be far fewer smokers. I think part of the problem is in thinking of ourselves as if body and mind weren't integral to one another, setting ourselves up to believe that our conscious minds are not only responsible for, but capable of being 'in control' of the whole complex dance of physical and emotional processes that make up our lives.

Yeah, and the sad thing is (as illustrated by several of the other comments here) weight isn't even primarily - let alone entirely - about *eating* (or fitness), let alone about emotional issues, compulsive eating, etc.

There have been all sorts of studies done indicating that eating habits (and exercise habits) are quite a small part of the determining factors in weight/size. There are medical conditions and disorders (discussed below) and there's just plain heredity.

I'm not saying this very well. What I'm /trying/ to say is that 'not being thin' is not necessarily pathological, according to a majority of the reputable research out there. There is a huge range of what can be a healthy, normal weight/size/shape for people. Unfortunately, in the past century especially, Americans (and, I suspect, many Europeans, but I don't really know) have become so invested in thinness as an aesthetic and moral issue that they're not prepared to accept that it might not be attainable and therefor these findings are ignored. They're not, by and large, from what I know, refuted - they're just disappeared.

It's sad. Women who are "too thin" are treated horribly by other women. And women and men who are "too fat" are treated terribly by the medical establishment, the media, well-meaning friends, families, acquaintances, strangers, and often themselves. Being fat is considered a sign of laziness, overindulgence, lack of willpower (again, also mentioned below), low self-esteem. It's gotten tied into class perceptions. And so often the best we seem to be able to say is, "Oh, it's not their/our fault--there's a medical disorder that's the reason I'm/they're/we're 'like this.'".... It's better to be excused than to be blamed, but the implication is that size NEEDS an excuse.

I was thinking about it when I got started on the replacement thyroid hormones. My very likeable (and very thin) doctor said laughingly, "Now, I don't think you should be expecting to become a size 5 overnight..." and I said, "Oh, no. Heck, size 5 would *not* be healthy for my body." And there was a little silence. I realized that my very intelligent, supportive, understanding doctor was not really sure that there was a size that would be 'too small,' except maybe down to size 0. But I remember when I was 13. I was active, I had started getting my figure maybe a year and a half before. I had that kind of thinness only younger adolescent girls have, the kind you know doesn't last, even though it's what our standards of beauty are based on. I was a size 14.

You'd have to fracture my pelvis and remove my ribs before I'd be a size five, no matter how much fat came off my body. That ain't healthy.

So--yeah. What you said, just - from my point of view - more so.

I was thinking about it when I got started on the replacement thyroid hormones. My very likeable (and very thin) doctor said laughingly, "Now, I don't think you should be expecting to become a size 5 overnight..." and I said, "Oh, no. Heck, size 5 would *not* be healthy for my body." And there was a little silence. I realized that my very intelligent, supportive, understanding doctor was not really sure that there was a size that would be 'too small,' except maybe down to size 0. But I remember when I was 13. I was active, I had started getting my figure maybe a year and a half before. I had that kind of thinness only younger adolescent girls have, the kind you know doesn't last, even though it's what our standards of beauty are based on. I was a size 14.

I don't know how tall you are or what your build is like, but I can tell you that a size 14 ain't what it used to be. I remember being at a reasonable weight and wearing size 12 and occasionally size 10 clothes. Now I weigh less than I did since my adolescence, but I don't think I'm thin, just, well, normal. And I'm wearing a size 6, with occasional delvings into size 4. It's just weird. I knew size inflation was standard for more expensive clothes, but I hadn't realized there'd been such a change all the way down.

Or am I just totally misremembering? I wish I could find some of those smaller sizes from back when to see if they were really as teeny as I remember them. And are there now sizes below size 0?

Wonderful final comment. My sister has a chronic disease, and one thing we've found is that any evidence that the body can be stronger than the conscious mind frightens people. And that too often leads to bad behavior towards the people who appear in public even though they may be fat, or in a wheelchair, or whatever. We're constant reminders of what could happen. And being fat isn't even really that bad, but some people sure think it is!

You've hit the nail on the head, pointing out that fear reaction. Fear of losing control is kind of funny when you think that people don't really have much control to begin with. We've got heredity, and happenstance, and we've got patterns of dealing with food that are learned at our parent's knees. These may allow us leeway for modifying our behavior to some extent, but they are always going to be exerting their influence, however much we think that we're in charge.

Something I was reading recently revised my opinion on this--now I'm amazed at what a blend of conscious control and lack of it we have over bodily functions. We do indeed consciously control essential physical processes like when we do and don't defecate or unrinate, which is actually a big accomplishment. And we know a lot of things to do that often get the results we want, like physical activities to make us stronger or faster or whatever. So there are areas of control, and these can sometimes give us the illusion that everything the body does is or should be under conscious control. And it is quite an illusion, as we agree.

Also, those who physically demonstrate that our bodies are not always under control are marginalized, sometimes literally shamed into staying at home and sometimes "invisible" even when present. (A great collection of essays called Scoot Over, Skinny! has a piece on how, paradoxically, being bigger makes people somehow not notice you, looking past you, treating you as if you aren't there.) Another way that an absurd idea is actually given some support.

I want it tobe 100% clear that I do still think about this issue the way I said--but I'm also mulling over reasons that people can possibly believe the notion that we can totally control out bodily functions.

You're right that some things are more subject to control than others. We can 'hold it' (whether breath, bladder or bowel) - but only for so long. And, with years of discipline some people (yogis, frex) can learn even greater control. It's definitely a good thing to be able to hold your breath when you're in the water, and to hold other things when you're in adverse circumstances.

Maybe there's some evolutionary advantage in learning to control our very metabolisms. But, given that this is not presently how things work, it seems weird that so many people seem to expect it.

This is just . . . weird

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