(This is so long that LJ won't let me post it all at once. I hope you don't mind my taking up so much space in your LJ!)
First, I want to say that I generally agree with what dd_b says above. (I think that he and I have some traits very much in common, and some other traits that are about 180 degrees off, which explains why over the years we have generally either agreed completely or disagreed vehemently!) The following particularly resonates with me:
I'm also not at all clear that styles of emotional expression correlate very well to depth of emotion displayed. I'm on the more reserved side myself, and many of the ways I've seen this argued appear to be saying that means I can't really feel emotion. I'm not convinced, as they say. And find the suggestion rather insulting. (Not you particularly -- you haven't said that, we've merely touched things that go near it, and I'm explaining a thing that may add emotional power to my reaction.)
One example I can think of for myself is that I have a very dry sense of humor. Often, people don't know when I'm not serious. It has been said of me that I am "humorless" and "totally lacking in a sense of humor."
I also have, in this discussion, been doing much as he has: going further into topics to which your comments led me, rather than meaning a reply directly to what you said.
In reading dd_b's comments, then pameladean's and minnehahaB's responses, it strikes me that some of what we're looking at is not so much truly knowing another's heart as drawing conclusions about another's heart by judging their superficial demeanor. I think that it's essential to make a distinction between those two; like dd_b, I don't think that all people show their feelings in the same way, nor IMHO should they, nor would it be a very interesting world (though perhaps a more peaceful one)if they did.
Also re your response to him: I'm quite sure that no one here intended to "pummel" you. (Certainly no one here whom I know personally would have intended that.) But how can any of us test our own ideas unless we expose them to others' scrutiny? We can then accept or reject, adopt new bits, adjust, gain new insights even where those insights don't change our approach. It all contributes to learning about others, which for me at least is the only road to understanding them.
Now, on to this post of yours.
If this optimism/pessimism scale is what cakmpls was referring to by arguing that there is no intrinsic superiority between one way of looking at the world and the other, then yes, I agree.
It was certainly part of what I was referring to. But another part is this: Thinking that things may, even probably will, turn out badly for someone does not mean that one does not care about it. Being able to foresee a probably bad end is not the same as wishing it to happen. Accepting the bad end as the likely one does not mean doing what one can to keep it from happening.
cakmplsalso said "I don't believe that there are hearts of flesh and hearts of stone. I think that there are simply people with different needs."
Well, yeah, I don't believe it literally, of course. I meant it as a metaphor.
Of course I knew that. But as I said to someone else, as a metaphor, it has never been a compliment. Therefore, it seems to me that it does imply a negative judgment of the person one characterizes as having such a heart. The fact that you later use Hitler as an example of someone with a heart of stone seems to support this.
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Part 1
Date: 2004-07-22 09:07 am (UTC)First, I want to say that I generally agree with what
I'm also not at all clear that styles of emotional expression correlate very well to depth of emotion displayed. I'm on the more reserved side myself, and many of the ways I've seen this argued appear to be saying that means I can't really feel emotion. I'm not convinced, as they say. And find the suggestion rather insulting. (Not you particularly -- you haven't said that, we've merely touched things that go near it, and I'm explaining a thing that may add emotional power to my reaction.)
One example I can think of for myself is that I have a very dry sense of humor. Often, people don't know when I'm not serious. It has been said of me that I am "humorless" and "totally lacking in a sense of humor."
I also have, in this discussion, been doing much as he has: going further into topics to which your comments led me, rather than meaning a reply directly to what you said.
In reading
Also re your response to him: I'm quite sure that no one here intended to "pummel" you. (Certainly no one here whom I know personally would have intended that.) But how can any of us test our own ideas unless we expose them to others' scrutiny? We can then accept or reject, adopt new bits, adjust, gain new insights even where those insights don't change our approach. It all contributes to learning about others, which for me at least is the only road to understanding them.
Now, on to this post of yours.
If this optimism/pessimism scale is what
It was certainly part of what I was referring to. But another part is this: Thinking that things may, even probably will, turn out badly for someone does not mean that one does not care about it. Being able to foresee a probably bad end is not the same as wishing it to happen. Accepting the bad end as the likely one does not mean doing what one can to keep it from happening.
Well, yeah, I don't believe it literally, of course. I meant it as a metaphor.
Of course I knew that. But as I said to someone else, as a metaphor, it has never been a compliment. Therefore, it seems to me that it does imply a negative judgment of the person one characterizes as having such a heart. The fact that you later use Hitler as an example of someone with a heart of stone seems to support this.