More novel ideas [the germ of the Ice Palace idea]

[pegkerr]

Have been thinking more about what I learned from writing my last books, and how that could be applied to planning my next. One thing: I did a heavy amount of research into geographical areas that were far from where I lived, i.e., England and New York City. It occurred to me, once, when I was trying to figure out how I could find out what specific stores were open in 1981 on Christopher Street, that there could be an easier way to do this: I could be writing a novel set here in Minnesota. That way I could just call up the local historical society (free local call) if I had a question.

So . . . if I set a fantasy novel set in Minnesota . . .

Here's something that occurred to me today when I heard a radio program that included a snippet of dialogue from Henry IV, Part 1, Act III, Scene 1:

GLENDOWER
I can call spirits from the vasty deep.

HOTSPUR
Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them?

What sorts of "creatures from the vasty deep"--fantastical creatures, if you will--would be called if you called them in Minnesota?

Hmm. Trolls. Ice sprites. Maybe some American Indian spirit creatures. Um . . .

"Minnesota" suggests snow and cold, of course (although I find Minnesota cold and snow a bit over-rated; I really don't think it's any worse than in Chicago, where I grew up). What fairy tales include snow and cold? I thought, of course, of "The Snow Queen," but I think I'd like to do a fairy tale by someone other than Andersen this time. Besides, Joan Vinge sort of beat me to that one (I'm reading The Snow Queen for the first time).

I thought of "The Frost King," which I think I read in a collection of Russian fairy tales when I was a kid. (Actually, this fairy tale has the sort of moral I really dislike: mealy-mouthed milquetoast daughter gets rewarded, uppity, mouthy daughter gets shafted. It's very similar to Perrault's tale "Toads and Diamonds" which I re-told with a subversive twist for Amazing Stories in 1986.)

Can anyone else think of any other fairy tales involving cold and snow?

Then I thought about the St. Paul Winter Carnival and the Ice Palace. Here's the one in 1941:



What a perfect setting for a fantasy novel set in the Twin Cities! Did a quick search, found a murder mystery set there, at the 1896 ice palace.

Hmm. Maybe, maybe. Here's a photo poster from the web site of the architectural firm that designed the 1992 ice palace. (Wouldn't something like this make a great book cover?)

.

Here's a promotional poster:



(The idea of fairies dancing in a castle of ice, is CERTAINLY suggestive).

Peg, still cogitating

Comments

[pinkfinity.livejournal.com]

Other than the Snow Queen, if you wanted a redo on HCA, there are a few other grim Tales which concern snow and ice. There's a version of Cinderella which takes place in wintertime, and a Japanese folktale about a woman made of snow who comes to life and terrorizes the poor man who created her, which sounds v. Pygmalionesque in a poverty-stricken way. If I think of more, will post.

[aome.livejournal.com]

What sorts of "creatures from the vasty deep"--fantastical creatures, if you will--would be called if you called them in Minnesota?


The Abominable Snow Man? *g*

(I'm sorry -- I know that's not helpful to you at all. It was the only other snow-related thing I could think of, and, in between fits of giggles, I had to mention it.)

How about some sort of Santa Claus/Father Christmas-based tale? (Wouldn't have to be actually Christmas-oriented.) A mysterious person who brings brightness in the midst of the bleak winter? Are there any Norwegian or otherwise Scandinavian winter legends/traditions you could use? (Am thinking of the supposedly high Scandinavian-based population of your state; don't know if it's true or not.)

[alisgray.livejournal.com]

I suppose "The Little Match Girl" doesn't count? H. C. Andersen wrote a story called "The Snow Man" too.

East of the Sun and West of the Moon (one of my all-time favorites! it has were polar bears!)

Snow White and Rose Red

I recall one Grimms tale my stepmother translated for me that involved a woodcutter scaring off a fox or something because he was able to use his breath to both warm his hands and cool his soup, which convinced the fox (or was it a wolf? can't remember) that the man had magical powers.

There are a number of fairy tales that have Frost or Jack Frost as characters. (My Rackham illustrated copy of Fairytales From Many Lands has one just called "Frost" in which Frost is a bridegroom who pinches three sisters to see how they react, and kills two of them.

I wonder what you *would* get if you found the creatures from the deep of Minnesota. Granite boulders that come up in the fields. Enormous wall-eyed pike. Cheese curds. Punk rock music. Enormous granite wall-eyed deep-fried punk rock on a stick, probably.

Minnesota creatures from the deep

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

Your description REALLY made me laugh.

One of my mentors has already done Snow White and Rose Red (Patricia C. Wrede) so I don't think I'll want to do that. I'll check out East of the Sun, West of the Moon. Thanks.

Peg

[peacockharpy.livejournal.com]

Snow fairy tales -- isn't there a Russian one about the little snow-maiden? The parents made her because they wanted a real daughter... very Frosty-the-Snowman... ahh. I found it. Snegourka, the Snow Maiden.

I like the idea of ice and snow fairies, too. And the palaces look phenomenal! When is the Ice Palace built each year?

- Darice

Snow Fairy Tales

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the story link. I'll check it out.

They don't build an Ice Palace every year. I'll have to look up the dates it was done--and see if other books have been written about the ice castles. Some historical history is necessary, I think. I only saw one of the ice palaces, but yes, it was extremely impressive.

[alyeska.livejournal.com]

You might try Norse mythology or Alaskan Indian legends. If I remember correctly the Tlinglt and Athapascan are the two major Alaskan tribes. One of these is sure to have stories centered around snow or ice.

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

My web site has a reprint of a story called "The Ice Wigwam of Minnehaha," which was published in 1874. It talks about some legend that is never described, and I believe the author made it up its existence. That being said, you could make up this legend if it suited the story. Or, if your research should happen to come across such a thing, I'd love to know about it.

The story starts <a href="http://www.urbancreek.com/tales02/wigwam01.html >here</a>, and is illustrated with pictures of Minnehaha Falls in winter. Some of the pictures are from the 1870s. K. [glad of your inspriation]

Thanks for the link

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

I'll check it out.

P.

Minnesotan fantasy

[(Anonymous)]

Some time back, it occurred to me that cycle of the Twin Cities year is pagan, but pagan in a very weird way. In the Norse legends, winter is associated with chaos and danger. In the Minnesotan legends, winter is associated with stability; it's spring that's chaotic.

You can see this in the St. Paul Winter Carnival. The Winter Carnival is presided over by King Boreas and the Queen of the Snows. They are genial, safe, and stable. Partway through the festival, Vulcanis Rex and the Vulcans appear: they are freaky, scary, weird, and chaotic. They dress in red and draw V's on people's foreheads with greasepaint. Of course, ultimately King Boreas is defeated by Vulcanis Rex -- and spring comes.

And with spring, the Mayday Festival also comes. Even more than the St. Paul Winter Carnival, this is [i]incredibly[/i] pagan. It is also [i]incredibly[/i] chaotic. The story of the parade varies, but the pageant usually seems to be roughly the same: "Once upon a time, humanity lived in innocence and freedom; then the evil capitalists came and enslaved everyone, and subdued nature -- Sky, Prairie, Lake, ...uh, whatever the fourth giant puppet is. But the people rose up and broke their chains; they raised up the elements of nature and summoned the SUN, who brought the Tree of Life, and we all lived happily ever after." You can almost read the Mayday Pageant as the sequel to the Winter Carnival. And once again, spring is chaotic and disorderly.

There isn't really a summer festival, but there is a fall festival, the State Fair, which is bizarre in its own special way but doesn't entirely fit with my "Minnesotans are all secretly pagan" theory. (You could probably come up with some interesting interpretation of the stuff-on-a-stick obsession, though...)

The idea that winter = stability while spring = chaos reflects some of the realities of living in Minnesota in the early 21st century, though. Minneapolis and St. Paul avoid some of the big city problems that other comparable cities have simply because they're so cold. As North Dakota supposedly puts it, "40 Below Keeps the Riff-Raff Out." Winter makes it hard to live here. And in the "Murderapolis" summer when we broke records for the number of people dead, it was the arrival of cold weather that eventually quelled things.

Anyway, after coming up with all of this, I thought there [i]had[/i] to be a story in it. And after mulling over it off and on for over a year, I wrote "Gift of the Winter King," which was my first professional sale (to Realms of Fantasy, 4/00). I certainly think the magic inherent in the Minnesotan festivals could encompass a whole lot more fiction, though.

I have some other thoughts about this, but I'm up way past my bedtime so I'll stop here. --Naomi Kritzer

Re: Minnesotan fantasy

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

Some excellent thoughts to add to the hopper here. I particularly like your suggestion of the MayDay celebration--one of my very favorite times of the year in Minneapolis. Thanks!

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

And Karen knows quite a bit about the history of the Minneapolis Parks System.

B

Which . . .

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

I am sure I will draw upon if I pursue this idea further. Thanks!

[(Anonymous)]

Even though I don't comment, I DO read your journal every 2 weeks or so! So even though we haven't spoken, I don't feel out of touch with you at all. Chet doesn't read, so he IS out of touch w/you. How do you get around to this every day?

I remember a collection of Danish folk tales retold by Isak Dinesen called Winter's Tales. I don't remember if any of them involved snow, but I remember the tales being excellent & worth reading anyway. I have a copy of you would like me to send it to you.

AND (this will surprise you) at your (& several others') suggestion, I read The Golden Compass - and you know I'm not a fantasy reader. But since I read The Hobbit & have almost finished 3rd book of LOTR this year (w/Leigh) & loved it SOOOOO much, I decided to give your recommendation a go. It was interesting, but I didn't get so wrapped up in it that I am dying to read the next book. Leigh was intrigued with the idea of a daemon, so she's interested. Maybe I'll read it to her after we finish LOTR.

Leigh is reading a parody of Harry Potter (Barry Trotter & the Unauthorized Parody) & is laughing up a storm. The same fellow did a parody of the trilogy by Pullman called "His Damaged Credit Trilogy" - The Golden Whupass (Book I), The Subtle Knish (Book II), & The Amber Shotglass (Book III).

Well, this is too long for live journal - sorry!!!

heather

The Golden Compass

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

I had quite a long gap of time between reading the first and the second book--my reaction was probably like yours: intrigued but not quite sure I'd read the next, but I did. Yes, I think the idea of a daemon would be particularly interesting for a kid. I'd read the whole series yourself, though, before starting Leigh on it. I don't think I want to give it to Fiona yet.

I'm so glad you've finally gotten to read the Lord of the Rings! Wonderful! Don't forget to try the BBC radio production with Ian Holm as Frodo--he was Bilbo in the movie. It's expensive but worth it. Make sure you get the BBC production and not the Mind's Eye version, which was really inferior.

I'm glad you're still following my journal, and I'm always glad to hear from you. Maybe I'll try calling you folks on Sunday, when I'm back from the Renaissance Festival.

Cheers,
Peg

[serendipoz.livejournal.com]

What sorts of "creatures from the vasty deep"--fantastical creatures, if you will--would be called if you called them in Minnesota?

There is another Oscar Wilde fairytale called "The Happy Prince" which has winter in it. As does, for that matter "The Selfish Giant". And "The Remarkable Rocket" has a Russian prince.

There is a lovely (with illustrations and words) fairy tale site at:http://www.belinus.co.uk/fairytales/Homeextra.htm. It has fairy stories by Joseph Jacobs, Andrew Lang (all the 'color' fairy tale books), Grimms, Hauffs, John Ruskin, Oscar Wilde, ... . In fact it's a marvelous time travel place with scans of goreous work and thought.

Actually, if I wrote of fairies in Minnesota, I'd write of sirens in the water and wood maidens in the trees, ... (and likely sod maidens on the side of Plum Creek!)

Thanks . . .

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

for suggesting the fairy tale site. I'll definitely bookmark it and check it out.