Speaking up for tolerance
Jul. 3rd, 2003 12:47 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
pegkerrHad a memorable conversation with a coworker today, whom I’ll call Anne. Here is my best memory of what we said to each other. She is another secretary here at this firm, a woman in her late fifties, originally from England (Yorkshire). She and her husband have been extremely active in a conservative Christian church, including extensive missionary work. The two of them just became U.S. citizens.
She was copying some expense reports and I was waiting for the copier, and we got to chatting. I congratulated again her on her recent admission to U.S. citizenship. I don’t remember exactly how the conversation wended its way there, but she mentioned in the course of the conversation that she had been told that even though they were now U.S. citizens, they could be stopped by the police without cause, simply because they were sounded foreign, and interrogated in an attempt to uncover terrorism.
I shook my head at the idea of Anne, with her conservative suits, her helmet of graying hair, and her thick Yorkshire accent, being mistaken for a terrorist. "Did you see that article on the front page of the Star Tribune today?" I asked. "The one about the group of Muslims who are getting so much grief in Iowa because they’ve bought an old Girl Scout Camp and want to open a camp for Muslim children, and the neighbors are having heart palpitations over fears of terrorists in our midst? Dreadful."
"I don’t know very much about Islam," she remarked. "Although I don’t believe it’s a valid religion, of course."
Of course you wouldn’t I thought silently. I kept it to myself. I’ve frequently had to bite my lip in response to remarks Anne has made before. I’m a Christian, too, but much less conservative.
"We have had a lot of Somalis coming to settle here," she went on. "About 100,000 in the Twin Cities now. They started settling here because they found it easy to find jobs. Their culture really emphasizes their helping each other. Do you know," she added, almost as an afterthought. "My husband and I were talking to some, and they said what shocked them the most coming here, what they had never heard of before, was gay people. They had never heard of such a thing. Did you hear that story on the radio last night, where they were interviewing that man, and he had gotten AIDS because he was promiscuous? He thought it didn’t have anything to do with him, because he thought it was a gay disease." She sniffed. "Well, what did he expect? If you behave like that, of course you’re going to get AIDS."
I didn’t really feel like biting my lip anymore. "I’ve done a great deal of research on AIDS, you know. And the history of gay culture, too. That’s what my second book is about."
She looked surprised. "No, I didn’t know that."
"I believe that AIDS is a disease, pure and simple. It isn’t a punishment from God."
"Well, I didn’t say that."
I knew she hadn’t, but I would bet anything she was thinking it. Her next words seemed to indicate I was right: "But well, you know, some people who get AIDS are innocent. You can’t blame them. Babies, or health care workers, and such. Wasn’t there a story about a man, a gay man who went out and deliberately tried to infect people?"
I sighed. "You’re probably thinking about Patient Zero. Yes, he did infect a lot of people early in the epidemic. He was an air steward, and so he traveled a lot with his job, and he did sleep around a lot."
She looked at me, as if to say, there, you see.
"But that was early days in the epidemic, you have to understand," I went on, irritated at having to defend the thinking process of Patient Zero, of all people. "There was a lot of disagreement about what was causing AIDS. Patient Zero was asked to stop sleeping around so much as the CDC began to get a sense of how it was transmitted, but he used that uncertainty about the causes of AIDS to rationalize and minimize the damage of what he was doing. You should read And The Band Played On by Randy Shilts. It’s a really good history of the early days of the epidemic. It might help you understand it a bit better."
"We just never heard about that stuff in England."
I bit back, Just because you hadn’t heard about it doesn’t mean it wasn’t there. "In the States the modern push for gay civil rights is generally understood to have started with the Stonewall riots, in the 1960s."
She frowned. "The Stonewall riots? What’s that?"
So I gave her a little précis on the Stonewall riots. She shook her head. "You know, I’m just morally uncomfortable with gays."
I didn’t want to let her walk away. I didn’t want the conversation to be over. I wanted to really challenge her for once. "You know, Anne, I used to be just like you in that respect. When I was eighteen, I was trying to decide what college to go to, and I visited the Macalester College campus. I saw a student tacking up a notice on the school bulletin board, and I went over to see what the note said. It was a meeting of the student Gay-Lesbian Alliance."
Anne’s eyes widened.
"And I’m ashamed to say it, but it’s true. My decision to not go to Macalester crystallized at that exact moment. I was so ignorant, and I had so unthinkingly absorbed our culture's prejudice against gays, that I didn’t want to go to school where 'those people' were around." I shook my head at my former bigoted self, wincing. As if I could somehow avoid gay people by going somewhere else, when in fact I know now that they were always around me, all the time. As if there was anything about the mere proximately of gay people that was somehow a threat to me! How appallingly ignorant I was! "But I’m telling you," I went on, "I’ve changed." I took a deep breath and looked her straight in the eye. "Partly because of all the research I’ve done, my opinions have shifted in a totally different direction. I believe that gays and lesbians deserve full civil rights, that they should be allowed to marry, and they should be allowed to adopt children if they wish. There is nothing wrong whatsoever about being gay or lesbian."
Her eyes widened again in shock, or perhaps horror, and she began walking away.
"Well, I can’t say the same," she said somewhat stiffly.
"I understand how you feel, Anne, because I used to feel the same way. But my opinions totally changed when I got some good information."
"My opinions won’t change," she said bluntly. "I’m too old."
"Well, that’s a pretty sad thing to say about yourself," I shot back, exasperated. She continued to walk back to her desk. “Read my book,” I called after her.
I wish she would. If there was anyone I knew that I wanted to read it, who I think needs to read it, it’s her.
But I know that she won’t.
Still, I’m glad that I said what I did.
Peg
She was copying some expense reports and I was waiting for the copier, and we got to chatting. I congratulated again her on her recent admission to U.S. citizenship. I don’t remember exactly how the conversation wended its way there, but she mentioned in the course of the conversation that she had been told that even though they were now U.S. citizens, they could be stopped by the police without cause, simply because they were sounded foreign, and interrogated in an attempt to uncover terrorism.
I shook my head at the idea of Anne, with her conservative suits, her helmet of graying hair, and her thick Yorkshire accent, being mistaken for a terrorist. "Did you see that article on the front page of the Star Tribune today?" I asked. "The one about the group of Muslims who are getting so much grief in Iowa because they’ve bought an old Girl Scout Camp and want to open a camp for Muslim children, and the neighbors are having heart palpitations over fears of terrorists in our midst? Dreadful."
"I don’t know very much about Islam," she remarked. "Although I don’t believe it’s a valid religion, of course."
Of course you wouldn’t I thought silently. I kept it to myself. I’ve frequently had to bite my lip in response to remarks Anne has made before. I’m a Christian, too, but much less conservative.
"We have had a lot of Somalis coming to settle here," she went on. "About 100,000 in the Twin Cities now. They started settling here because they found it easy to find jobs. Their culture really emphasizes their helping each other. Do you know," she added, almost as an afterthought. "My husband and I were talking to some, and they said what shocked them the most coming here, what they had never heard of before, was gay people. They had never heard of such a thing. Did you hear that story on the radio last night, where they were interviewing that man, and he had gotten AIDS because he was promiscuous? He thought it didn’t have anything to do with him, because he thought it was a gay disease." She sniffed. "Well, what did he expect? If you behave like that, of course you’re going to get AIDS."
I didn’t really feel like biting my lip anymore. "I’ve done a great deal of research on AIDS, you know. And the history of gay culture, too. That’s what my second book is about."
She looked surprised. "No, I didn’t know that."
"I believe that AIDS is a disease, pure and simple. It isn’t a punishment from God."
"Well, I didn’t say that."
I knew she hadn’t, but I would bet anything she was thinking it. Her next words seemed to indicate I was right: "But well, you know, some people who get AIDS are innocent. You can’t blame them. Babies, or health care workers, and such. Wasn’t there a story about a man, a gay man who went out and deliberately tried to infect people?"
I sighed. "You’re probably thinking about Patient Zero. Yes, he did infect a lot of people early in the epidemic. He was an air steward, and so he traveled a lot with his job, and he did sleep around a lot."
She looked at me, as if to say, there, you see.
"But that was early days in the epidemic, you have to understand," I went on, irritated at having to defend the thinking process of Patient Zero, of all people. "There was a lot of disagreement about what was causing AIDS. Patient Zero was asked to stop sleeping around so much as the CDC began to get a sense of how it was transmitted, but he used that uncertainty about the causes of AIDS to rationalize and minimize the damage of what he was doing. You should read And The Band Played On by Randy Shilts. It’s a really good history of the early days of the epidemic. It might help you understand it a bit better."
"We just never heard about that stuff in England."
I bit back, Just because you hadn’t heard about it doesn’t mean it wasn’t there. "In the States the modern push for gay civil rights is generally understood to have started with the Stonewall riots, in the 1960s."
She frowned. "The Stonewall riots? What’s that?"
So I gave her a little précis on the Stonewall riots. She shook her head. "You know, I’m just morally uncomfortable with gays."
I didn’t want to let her walk away. I didn’t want the conversation to be over. I wanted to really challenge her for once. "You know, Anne, I used to be just like you in that respect. When I was eighteen, I was trying to decide what college to go to, and I visited the Macalester College campus. I saw a student tacking up a notice on the school bulletin board, and I went over to see what the note said. It was a meeting of the student Gay-Lesbian Alliance."
Anne’s eyes widened.
"And I’m ashamed to say it, but it’s true. My decision to not go to Macalester crystallized at that exact moment. I was so ignorant, and I had so unthinkingly absorbed our culture's prejudice against gays, that I didn’t want to go to school where 'those people' were around." I shook my head at my former bigoted self, wincing. As if I could somehow avoid gay people by going somewhere else, when in fact I know now that they were always around me, all the time. As if there was anything about the mere proximately of gay people that was somehow a threat to me! How appallingly ignorant I was! "But I’m telling you," I went on, "I’ve changed." I took a deep breath and looked her straight in the eye. "Partly because of all the research I’ve done, my opinions have shifted in a totally different direction. I believe that gays and lesbians deserve full civil rights, that they should be allowed to marry, and they should be allowed to adopt children if they wish. There is nothing wrong whatsoever about being gay or lesbian."
Her eyes widened again in shock, or perhaps horror, and she began walking away.
"Well, I can’t say the same," she said somewhat stiffly.
"I understand how you feel, Anne, because I used to feel the same way. But my opinions totally changed when I got some good information."
"My opinions won’t change," she said bluntly. "I’m too old."
"Well, that’s a pretty sad thing to say about yourself," I shot back, exasperated. She continued to walk back to her desk. “Read my book,” I called after her.
I wish she would. If there was anyone I knew that I wanted to read it, who I think needs to read it, it’s her.
But I know that she won’t.
Still, I’m glad that I said what I did.
Peg
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
Go you.
Date: 2003-07-03 10:59 am (UTC)That takes a tremendous amount of courage, especially in the political climate we live in today.
I'm going to be proud of you all day, FWIW.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 10:59 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 11:03 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 11:04 am (UTC)There were two horribly ignorant and biased letters to the editor in our paper today, against gays. *sigh* Might be time for me to write back - I've done it twice before, but not recently.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 11:19 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 11:32 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 11:35 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 11:37 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 11:57 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 12:14 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 12:22 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 12:25 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 12:33 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 12:48 pm (UTC)Probably true. It often seems to take the death of a generation to get over prejudice.
B
(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 12:57 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 01:12 pm (UTC)I wish that I had your courage. Actually, I think it probably would have been possible for me to have that conversation with a co-worker or friend; but the person I really need to have it with, my mom--I haven't quite mustered that yet. Working on it.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 01:14 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 01:18 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 01:48 pm (UTC)I am very impressed with the way you stuck with the interaction, and the way in which you tried hard to be non-threatening and approachable.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 02:04 pm (UTC)What I want to say to the people who don't accept it is, "It Shouldn't Even Be an Issue. Every variety of person deserves respect and equal treatment under the law. Period. Move on; there's widespread poverty, famine and an ecology at risk, people."
(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 02:17 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 02:24 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 02:46 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 02:58 pm (UTC)The only thing more discouraging than her reaction that her opinions won't change because she's old, is the reaction of some of my students.
Their opinions won't change because they refuse to learn.
Sigh. I'm gearing up for The Laramie Project again. I hope I walk away feeling like I've done something.
Beth
(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 03:01 pm (UTC)Can I share this post with my boss,
(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 06:02 pm (UTC)However, I just added
Peg
flashes of thought
Date: 2003-07-03 03:02 pm (UTC)Of my landlord, whom I get along with, but who does not know my orientation because I'm afraid he'll kick me out.
Of Macalester, which I fell in love with as a Mecca in the middle of nowhere (or so I thought... the Twin Cities are hardly nowhere), which still encourages its students to volunteer, to get out and share that spirit with the community. I was never sadder than the day I had to leave it.
There was a Congressional committee hearing on TV about the FCC... the woman was saying to the Congressman that there needed to be protections to promote regionality and diversity in programming, to which the Congressman replied that regionality was dead, and there were only national interests.
I had to turn away; too angry. He obviously didn't know the pain and awkwardness of trying to mix, trying to bring disparate communities together, trying to start a dialogue.
Thank you for doing that.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 03:23 pm (UTC)And I didn't know your second book was about AIDS either.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 05:52 pm (UTC)If you do have a chance to pick up and read The Wild Swans, please feel free to drop me a line and let me know what you think.
It was a co-winner of the Gaylactic Spectrum Award, for best novel for the year 2000--the Spectrum Award, as you probably know, honors the book (or novella or short story) which presents the best positive portrayal of a gay character in sf/fantasy.
I was pretty proud of that!
Cheers,
Peg
(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 05:56 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 04:15 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 05:46 pm (UTC)Peg
(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 05:53 pm (UTC)Your story made me cry when I got to the part about you learning to accept gay and lesbian people. I had to go through that in order to accept myself.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 04:16 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 05:37 pm (UTC)Oh. And I'm glad you did what you did, too.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-03 06:20 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-04 05:42 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-05 04:22 pm (UTC)Kisses.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-07-09 05:52 pm (UTC)