Legal language

[pegkerr]

Now that summer is here and the girls are in daycare, we are, of course, signing all sorts of paperwork that the daycare requires for their fieldtrips and activities.

I took a close look at some of the releases that we were asked to sign, however, and said "No way." And this has reduced Fiona to tears ("What do you mean I can't go rock-climbing with the other kids?") but we're holding firm and waiting to hear what the daycare has to say in response.

The release asked them to have us admit that rockclimbing includes risks, and that we won't sue if there is death or injury. I can understand their wanting to cover themselves against that risk. But the release also said we couldn't sue in case of death or injury, even if it was due to their negligence.

I can understand that there's a (miniscule) risk of a rope breaking. But if a staff member is hauling my daughter up on the rope and lets go of it? Or doesn't bother to fasten it on her in the first place? Uh uh. They don't get off scot free for doing that.

I told them we'd sign it if they'd allow us to strike out the negligence language. We'll see what they say.

And a second release was even worse: not only is there no recourse in case of their negligence, it said that we would have to pay all of their legal defense costs, even if they were negligent. We couldn't possibly afford that!

Yeah, America is a litigious society, but I'm not unreasonable. I've never sued anyone, and I don't plan on doing so.

But I can't believe that the other parents signed this form.

Comments

[wilfulcait.livejournal.com]

Nobody reads those forms. People just sign them and never even think about it. But I agree (speaking professionally) that asking for a waiver of liability for your own negligence is pretty over the top.

[cakmpls.livejournal.com]

The other parents probably didn't read the form, or didn't understand it.

That "you won't sue us even if we're negligent" is becoming a common provision. I declined to join a fitness place because they included such a clause in their form.

I do wonder whether these clauses would actually be legally binding.

[windelina.livejournal.com]

I was under the impression that you cannot waive your right to sue in advance, or something like that.
Seeing as I work in a law firm, I really should go find out about that...

[silme.livejournal.com]

I'm curious. I live in the UK now, but I used to live (and teach) in Colorado. Such forms are fairly useless in Colorado because it's you can't sign your rights away there. School trip permission forms were a formality; it mostly let us know the parents knew the kids were with us.

[silme.livejournal.com]

Sorry... left out something...

The second sentence should read as follows.

Such forms are fairly useless in Colorado because it's against the law; you can't sign your rights away there. Basically, that form wouldn't be worth the paper it's printed on.

[neonnurse.livejournal.com]

What if you added something like, "Permission granted contingent on subsequent findings of form legality" or something?

I wonder if you had struck it out, signed it, and sent it back, if THEY would have even noticed? :)

[http://users.livejournal.com/anam_cara_/]

I often have to sign such forms for school trips, though in some cases they want you just to sign one slip to cover the entire year's worth of trips, regardless if it is across town or more elaborate (such as rock-climbing and such). I generally, begrudgingly sign them, there doesn't seem to be any reasonable recourse in most cases (particularly with the school district). I hate to restrict my son from what few enrichment opportunities are left in the public schools, yet am very frustrated by such forms. If anyone can advise alternatives, I'd be happy to push the issue, but usually am just told," if you don't sign, he doesn't go, this is the only form we accept."

[sleigh.livejournal.com]

I've crossed out offensive language in such school forms before, and no one noticed -- that might be the case there to. That'd be what I'd try first, simply crossing out the clause, signing it, and handing it in without comment.

After all, of us who are writers know that you never sign the boiletplate contract... :-)

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

I cross out the bits I don't agree to, photocopy it, lay it aside, toss when the field trip is over. No one has made a peep in all the years I've been doing this. (One kid 22, the other 12.)

I figure the photocopy is the equivalent of a spritz of Murphy-Be-Gone.

[aome.livejournal.com]

I'm sure that the parents just signed on the dotted line and didn't take the time to read. I didn't read the medical release I had to sign today at the pediatrician, although I *did* at least read it through the first time. I tend to at least give a once-over to the legal stuff pushed in front of me for the first time, but it never occurred to me there would *be* any wiggle room. It always seemed like, "these are the conditions - take 'em or leave 'em". We didn't have any serious releases to deal with for daycare - just allowing her to go for walks around campus and be transported by ambulance if something happens, but I'll keep my eyes out as she gets older. To be held accountable even if it's *their* fault is utterly ridiculous. How can they get away with that?

[sincelastjuly.livejournal.com]

I can't either -- asking to pay their court costs? That's insane.

[elfundeb.livejournal.com]

Good for you, Peg! I wish more people read those forms and acted on their concerns. And you handled it exactly the right way, even if it's made your children temporarily unhappy. I seem to recall from my law school days that simply crossing out the offending language and signing the form is not effective because the rock-climbing place did not offer to take your girls rock-climbing under those conditions. I usually argue about the offending language and make sure they know I'm removing it. They usually do.

[leiabelle.livejournal.com]

A girl I knew in high school went to one of those rock-climbing gyms with her sorority. Her safety line came loose (due to whose negligence, I don't know) and she fell 30 feet and broke her pelvis quite badly. I believe she fully recovered, but goodness, after a story like that, I'd never agree to sign away any rights! Good on you for not signing.