Glare Report 10/4: Research reading; reading other books re: ice palaces; title (in comments)

[pegkerr]

Last night's work was research reading, Ice Palaces by Fred Anderes and Ann Agranoff. I worked on reading it, flagging pages, and typing notes into a research file. I have not entirely made up my mind about how to handle research reading. Although I did lots and lots of research for my previous two books, I took no notes. This is a matter of great astonishment to kijjohnson, but it's true. I have a peculiarly retentive memory, and I have the knack for remembering where I read a research tidbit, so I preferred to write with my research books more or less on my lap, so I could consult directly out of them as I wrote. When I wanted a bit about what 17th century fire irons looked like, I would be able to go to the book where I read that part, and more or less quickly turn to that section, sometimes by consulting my memory, and sometimes by consulting the index. For the most part, it worked pretty well.

I'm trying to decide whether I actually need/want to take notes on what I read as I go along. I'm starting out trying it. Problem: I find it soooooo laborious, and I feel impatient. C'mon, you're wasting precious time, here. And if I take notes on my computer, I'm pretty much stuck with doing my note taking when I'm home. I guess I can read the books wherever I am (on breaks at work), flag them, and then do the notes later, but that then means going through the books twice. Haven't quite made up my mind yet what I am going to do.

I remain extremely uneasy about the Larry Millett book floating out there. I would have entirely preferred it if I had been the first fiction writer to use the ice palace as a setting, but I'm not. Larry Millett did it first, with Sherlock Holmes and the Ice Palace Murders, writing about one of the 19th century St. Paul palaces. The reason I am so intimidated is that he is the architecture critic for the St. Paul paper, and a writer of nonfiction architecture books, dammit. He knows an incredible amount about architecture. And what am I? A rank amateur. I don't dare read his book, for fear that his way of describing an ice palace and how it's built would "contaminate" how I try to do it. And yet I'm sure that he has done it so much better than I ever could.

Comments

[sleigh.livejournal.com]

I usually flag pages with Post-Its, usually making a notation on the Post-It about what I'm flagging, but I usually don't write a separate "research file" -- that strikes me as redundant. I don't have an incredibly retentive memory (at least not in my opinion), so it seems to me that if you do, then you really don't need the research file...

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

Post-Its only work if you print out the thing. I make comments in double parentheses ((like this)) so I can easily search for them.

B

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

Oh. I'm sorry. I thought you meant pages of your own manuscript.

Never mind.

B

[matociquala.livejournal.com]

If you're uncomfortable taking notes, why do it?

I don't, much, either, and I did a tremendous amount of reading for the Elizabethan book.

And yet I'm sure that he has done it so much better than I ever could.

Or perhaps its dry, boring, and "I suffered for my art," and he had no idea how to chart a story arc.

Quit second guessing yourself and write, young lady, because I want to read this thing. *g*

[dancingwriter.livejournal.com]

I only take notes on library books, and then only if I'm going to have to return them before I finish the book I'm researching. (I renew as many times as possible!) Sometimes I might make photocopies of a few pages that are particularly dense with information I think I'm going to need. But if I own a book, I just do as sleigh.

And about the second guessing--something I also tend to do, but all the same: what matociquala said!

[alisgray.livejournal.com]

Good heavens, darling, even F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote about ice palaces. However, it's nothing like a clichè.

Regarding notes taking too much time: have you considered voice recording for notes?

[jhetley.livejournal.com]

There's another Ice Palace novel out there, but I'm glitching on the title or author. That one was fantasy, with a Russian setting and a shape-changer Bear. Ten or twenty years back....

Yeah, that doesn't help a bit, does it?

I don't generally take notes on the little research I do. Most of the details come out of experience (one of the few advantages to advancing age) or books I can lay my hands on quickly.

[matociquala.livejournal.com]

oh, berloody hell. Is that the Saberhagen book? Um... whattheheckwasthatcalled....

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

I'm guessing it was this one. Huh. I may have to track down this one, too. So I can put it up on my shelf next to the Millett book and not read it.

[ide-cyan.livejournal.com]

ObRasputina: "New Zero"...

[millefiori.livejournal.com]

This may be impertinent, but I'm curious to know if there's a particular reason why you feel research notes are necessary. It seems like the method you used for your other books works well for you....

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

I need to think about this. I dunno: I suppose I thought I'd try it because it was an experiment, because I was experimenting with doing a lot of things differently on this book. For example, I'm trying to write bits all over the book at once and stitching them together like a patchwork quilt, instead of starting at the beginning and trundling through to the end, as I did with my last two.

kijjohnson was talking to me about research and describing to me how she did it, and I found myself wondering: Is that more efficient than what I do? Would I have a better command of my facts, would I keep better track of the knowledge I need to write? Am I reading stuff and then forgetting it before I put it in the book with my old method; should I try this instead? That's what led me to try to actually write down my research notes.

So far, it doesn't feel like a very comfortable fit with my method--but that's just it, my methods are completely different with this book, so what do I know???

It Seems To Me...

[huladavid.livejournal.com]

"And what am I? A rank amateur."

Once upon a time I met a woman who worried about just being "a chick from the suburbs" who later went on to write a wonderful book that tackled -among other things- the AIDS crisis*. You're not a rank amateur - you're a writer and an artist as well.

There's been a couple of times where I've roughed out an article or story, only to misplace everything, and had to start over. It never fails - if I find the first version it's nearly word for word to the replacement. Maybe you're the same way about research. And there's something to be said for just filing things away in the back of your mind to stew.

You know, I've got lots of time, and I'd be willing to help out with your research (ask about the work I did for the Gay Homicide Study sometime...), however I'd worry about missing something that would spark an idea...

Oh, Jeff Peasley wants to know if you want to hear the Stephen King "writer's block" story.
_____

* I wish to note that this is the first time I have successfully spelled the work "crisis" _All_By_Myself_.

Re: It Seems To Me...

[matociquala.livejournal.com]

I wanna hear the writer's block story, so if Peg doesn't, you can come tell me!

*g*

[eeyorerin]

Erm. I have read the other book of which you speak. Would it help if someone (or several someones) told you how the ice palace was used in it plot-wise but not description-wise, or would that be just as contaminating? (Trying to not mention my opinion of the book here.) Would it help if you talked to Mr. Millet, since he knows about architecture and ice palaces, and could be a possible live research source? The other architects you talked to seemed very willing to talk about their work with you, and I don't know that that's necessarily contaminated what you think -- in fact, you got the nifty fish story out of it, which may be a vital part of your story. Maybe as a fellow fiction author and an architecture critic, he'd be doubly willing and actually helpful rather than possibly contaminating?

I was thinking that if a person liked ice palaces, having more than one fictional book where they're used would be rather nice cross-promotion, because one could have bookstore clerks saying "If you liked Peg Kerr/Larry Millet's book about ice palaces, perhaps you'd like this other book that uses the ice palace as a setting."

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

I have thought about approaching him. There's no doubt he could be a huge help. He is local, which certainly helps.

Answer me this: did he talk a great deal about the palace construction, or did he just use it as a setting after the palace was completed?

[demarazare.livejournal.com]

You have this guy whose really knowledgeable about ice palace architecture living near you and you haven't called him for research?

Instead of fearing him, perhaps you should try giving him a call... he might be really helpful, and then you would know that he won't read your book and think it's crap from a woman who knows nothing. =)

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

Yes, you're right. I'm trying to get my nerve up. I want to do some more research reading, first, but yeah, it's probably inevitable that I'm going to end up calling him.

[jenett]

As far as the note-taking...

I note-take pretty extensively on books I don't own, because then I can still use the information when I have to give them back. On books I own, I do some marginal notes, but a lot of just plain remembering which book it's in.

I think it also matters what kind of information you're looking for - do the specifics matter, or are you just looking for inspiration/ideas/general information?

If getting the specifics right matters, then access to either detailed notes of the relevant bits, or the book itself seems a lot more important than if you're just looking for background or general information.

As far as taking notes, I absolutely adore my Neo (http://alphasmart.com). It's about $250 (the AlphaSmart 3000 has less memory, but runs about $200. I think the Neo's worth the extra money, though). I sort of hate that a tech toy helps this much, but it does.

It's incredibly portable, has fantastic battery life, and has made my note-taking hugely easier because I can do it anywhere I can type. (It also saves me from that horrible process of taking notes on paper and then trying not to misplace them or have to flip through them to find something: I can dump everything into a computer file and do searches as needed.) It's also incredibly helpful for the non-fiction writing I do, but that's probably more obvious.

[kate_nepveu]

Those Neos and Alphasmarts look extremely cool. If only I'd known about them when I was a student . . .

*wanders off trying to decide if she can justify one of them now*

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

For the record, I love Glare as a title of your book. I know you don't mean it as the title, but I still love it as a book title.

B

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

*Laughs* That's a great idea! Will have to ponder it. Because, of course, it can be a description of light on ice or snow.

[timprov.livejournal.com]

FWIW, we have a couple of Millett's Twin Cities architecture books, and they're quite bad. I wouldn't worry about his novel, and if you do look him up for research, take anything he says with a huge grain of salt.

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

Am wildly curious; what is it about his architecture books that you don't like?

Notes

[dendrophilous.livejournal.com]

I kept losing my notes (a notebook here, three scraps of paper over there, a random text file in there...) so a few months ago I decided to html them all and stick them on the web. It's a huge pain, though, since I first take them by hand and then have to type them. Nice cat-vacuuming exerice, though.