pegkerr: (Do I not hit near the mark?)
[personal profile] pegkerr
I have been mulling all day about the lively explosion of comments made to my post about The Giving Tree, particularly some very thoughtful ones made by [livejournal.com profile] cakmpls, [livejournal.com profile] dreamcoat_mom, and [livejournal.com profile] liadan_m, among others. Yes, I value giving. Yes, I understand loving giving as part of my faith, and as a proper part of parenting. So what is it that bothers me so much about The Giving Tree? If I value giving and unselfishness (and I think I do), why does that book squick me so much, when it seems to extol exactly those things?

It occurred to me to come up with an example of a story about giving that doesn't squick me and see what the contrast suggested. The first that occurred to me, as I noted, was "Leaf by Niggle" by J.R.R. Tolkien. This story has a lot to do with other topics, too (Tolkien partly wrote it to examine subcreation, and to deal with his anxious fear that he would never finish his great work, The Silmarillion) but the story also throws some interesting commentary on giving, on the relationship between the giver and receiver (e.g., Niggle and Parish), and how that changes as the soul purges unworthiness from the heart and becomes purified for heaven.

And then I thought of another tale that seemed very similar to me to "Leaf By Niggle," and identifying it helped me pin down what I've been struggling to articulate all day: It's The Quiltmaker's Gift:

A wise and generous quiltmaker, with magic in her fingers and love for humanity in her heart, sews the most beautiful quilts in the world—and gives each one away for free to a needy recipient. A greedy king, his castle overflowing with riches and treasures, never smiles—and yearns for the one thing that will bring him laughter and happiness. As the story unfolds, the reader watches the king learn the most valuable lesson of his life. Under the quiltmaker’s guidance, the king is transformed as he gives away his precious things all around the world. He learns the true meaning of happiness by bringing joy to the lives of others. He finally begins to smile.
The Quiltmaker tells the king he cannot receive one of her quilts unless he gives everything away. With each possession he gives away, she stitches another block of the quilt. The king, unlike the tree in The Giving Tree begins his giving grudgingly. Yet, the more he gives, the more he understands true generosity: he sees what joy his gifts give people, he learns more about what his own open-heartedness does for himself as well as for other people. He certainly becomes a better king and a more authentic human being. When he comes to the quiltmaker in the end, he is so changed that when she gives him the quilt, he suggests that she might like to have his throne, because it might be comfortable for her to sit in while making quilts. You can see that he has been changed, transformed by joy, by his own generosity, untrammeled by the worldly cares that used to tie him down.

Why does this book (and "Leaf by Niggle") feel so different to me, so much more in tune with my own values and faith than The Giving Tree? I mean, it's the same message, isn't it? Give everything away!

It really does feel different to me. I find it interesting that both Niggle and the King wanted something themselves (the tree that Niggle was trying to paint, and the quilt that the King coveted) but they only "got" their desired object when they stopped striving after it. They began turning away from their pursuit of that desired object and starting giving away things instead (Niggle gave his attention to his tasks and help to his neighbor, Parish, and the King gave away all his possessions. Eventually, Niggle received the tree, a truly living beautiful tree, created by the Divine, and the King received the Quilt). How, then, is this different from the tree in The Giving Tree giving away all of her things?

I was struggling to explain this to [livejournal.com profile] cakmpls today, and I'm not sure I can quite do so. The giving that the tree did seemed (to me) oddly--empty, nonsustaining. When the tree gave her trunk away, it just disappeared. It didn't make compost for the forest floor around her. It didn't truly tie together the tree and the boy: once he had what he wanted from her, he abandoned her. And the tree seemed (to me) more and more barren and empty the more the boy took.

Niggle and Parish seemed to grow in interest, sympathy and understanding toward each other. When the Voices judge Niggle and ask him to speak for himself, Niggle has been changed so much in his preparation after the onset of his journey (in what seems to be clearly Tolkien's Catholic conception of Purgatory) that his answer to the Voices' directive to speak in his own defense is only a humble inquiry to know how is neighbor Parish is doing.

Aargh, I'm not expressing myself clearly here at all. One thing that struck me forcibly in today's discussion was [livejournal.com profile] cakmpls's comment (if I may summarize) that the fact that the tree was a stump at the end didn't bother her because that is what the natural end of trees must be. I said, half facetiously that a tree being cut down wasn't natural, that a more natural ending would be the tree trunk falling down, rotting away as food for grubs and shelter for foxes, and Mufasa would be there in the background singing "The Circle of Life." Yet [livejournal.com profile] cakmpls was getting at something true and real here: When we think about whether to be selfish with our time and possessions, it helps to remember that we will all be "stumps" in the end. We will all die, and be able to take nothing with us, so why hang onto things? Why not give them away? "Leaf by Niggle" is all about this journey into and after death, and I think The Quiltmaker's Gift is about it indirectly, too. I guess . . . what I'm struggling to articulate here is that in the course of giving everything away, Niggle and the King change in their relationship to their possessions, to their recipients of their possessions, and to themselves, in ways that fitted them for their journey toward death, and to fit them to meet the divine. I think that the way that they learned to give away was informed by some kind of divine grace so that it ennobled the recipients, too. We see this most clearly with Parish. We do NOT see this (at least I don't!) with the boy in The Giving Tree. (YMMV, of course)

I find The Quiltmaker's Gift website to be extremely interesting and suggestive:
What value characterizes the work of quilters? Generosity! What keeps the cycle of generosity turning? People like you! Now Scholastic has decided to give back, too. Inspired by the powerful and personal response to The Quiltmaker's Gift, Scholastic, has donated $25,000 to organizations that exemplified the values and generosity portrayed in the book by the quiltmaker and the king...

ABC Quilts
The Mission of ABC Quilts is two-fold, to send love and comfort to at-risk children -- particularly children who are HIV/AIDS-infected, alcohol/drug-affected or abandoned -- in the form of handmade baby quilts; and to use the process of creating these quilts as a tool for promoting awareness, informed choices and community service.

Like the generous spirit that informs the work of ABC Quilts, the King in The Quiltmaker's Gift comes to understand the value of reaching out and responding to those in need.

SOS Children's Villages-USA
SOS Children's Villages is the largest non-governmental child welfare organization in the world. For fifty years it has provided assistance to children in over 131countries. SOS Children's Villages-USA offers an innovative approach to the Foster Care system giving orphaned children stable, permanent homes in family-based communities.

In the course of the story, the King comes to understand something that is fundamental to the work of SOS Children's Villages — SA, that having a home is not about possessions, but about sharing love and giving attention where it is needed.

The Heifer Project International
The Heifer Project International helps impoverished families worldwide become self-reliant through the gift of livestock and training in their care. One of The Heifer Project's unique programs is called Read to Feed, a creative classroom teaching tool that motivates children to read books to help hungry people.

The spirit of self-reliance that The Heifer Project works to instill is the same spirit the King comes to exemplify. In the story he learns that the best gift is the one that keeps on giving — and bestows self-esteem and respect rather than dependency or material status. (Emphasis added)
What the boy took in The Giving Tree didn't seem to me to be in that spirit at all. These charities chosen to honor the story of The Quiltmaker's Gift give me the feeling I was trying to pin down when I tried to rewrite The Giving Tree to be The Sharing Tree.

*Sigh* That's the best I can do at explaining.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-01-13 04:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] juliansinger.livejournal.com
Well, yeah. In _The Giving Tree_, there is absolutely no evidence that the boy learned how to give anything to anyone but himself.

Which is... a tragedy.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-01-13 05:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dreamcoat-mom.livejournal.com
Yes, yes, yes. If the book is taken strictly as Christian allegory that is exactly its point. The nature of sin is such that humankind doesn't ever seem to learn from its mistakes, especially if we do not recognize depth of God's sacrificial love. But in spite of humankind's myopic selfishness, the God most mainstream Christians worship will always supply a place of rest for those who return to the relationship at the end of all things. The book is a tragedy, in a way (and this is why I don't recommend it for young children. This particular boy learned nothing of giving himself, ending his days lonely and impoverished, yet the tree did not forsake him. This is the important point the story wishes to make, but for many Christians, including me, the idea needs to be carried through a little further. An explanation is in order as to how to avoid the boy's lonely and empty life - and believe me - that was the second half of our class's discussion. That is where Peg's idea of a "Sharing Tree" would have made an excellent parallel tale for Christian readers. When passing on the Christian faith to the next generation, it is important, yes, to convey the depth of God's sacrificial love - but it is equally important to emphasize that there is a next step. We are meant to follow the example of the tree in living out the teachings of Christ. If we do, our relationship with God flourishes, and neither we nor God are diminished. That is why "The Passion of the Christ" made many a devout Christian cringe. Where the hell was the rest of the story, I ask you? Ooooooh! Wouldn't that be an interesting paper - the parallels between the controversy of "The Giving Tree" and "TPoTC?" My kneejerk reaction is that they come from the very same place.

The purpose of my original post was not to raise my hand against the negative juggernaut and squeak, "But I liked it!" Personally, I have no strong feelings about it either way - but I did want to state for the record that I don't believe it to be a valueless text, just one that is too complex and sad for small children.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-01-13 01:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cakmpls.livejournal.com
But neither is there any evidence that he didn't. We only get one part of the story.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-01-13 04:49 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
I wouldn't really call a stump a 'natural' end of a tree. That would be a tree that was cut down by people, usually. Trees can live a remarkable long time. There's a sequoia in California that's well over 3000 years old.

Database of maximum tree ages.

Info on what happens to aging trees.

And when trees die naturally, they don't really look like stumps. They fall over a lot.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-01-13 01:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cakmpls.livejournal.com
A stump is not a natural end for a tree only if you don't consider humans to be part of nature. I do.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-01-14 03:33 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
Well, then, as long as you count murder as a natural human ending (as well as such things as shark attacks), then, it makes sense. Otherwise, I'm uncomfortable with the double standard.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-01-14 03:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cakmpls.livejournal.com
I think that some homicides (a different thing from "murder," which is a legal standard) are natural human endings, in the sense that I mean "natural." (I think that the phrase "natural causes" as a cause of death is pretty silly--after all, no matter what a person dies from, if it wasn't natural for a human to die from it, the person wouldn't die.)

On a planet that trees share with tool-using animals, yes, I think that ending as a stump is a natural end for some trees.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-01-14 07:40 pm (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
Well, that's cool, then (and that's a very good point about natural causes).

(no subject)

Date: 2005-01-13 05:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sartorias.livejournal.com
In a healthy giving moral story, everyone gives--and everyone gets something, even if it's good feelings, a sense of bonding, or whatever.

In that story, the boy learns absolutely nothing, he just collects material things, and the tree gives until it croaks. What we have is sentimentality overlaying materialism instead of real sharing.

Reminds me of the recent dreadful movie "Christmas with the Kranks," based on a real book that was touted as funny and uplifting. In both, the parents want to escape the demands of Christmas decorating, present buying, and so forth. Their daughter is not going to be home, so they plan a trip. The daughter calls two days before Xmas (and I use that term advisedly) and instead of telling her "The keys are under the mat--have a wonderful time" they feel obliged to rush about, spend thousands of dollars decorating and buying gifts, and giving in to the pressure of the neighbors to put lights and decorations out, so the entire block conforms.

There is no semblance whatsoever of spiritual meaning, or inspiration. Instead, the entire story is about meeting others' expectations--conforming to others' material demands--even though there is no meaning in it whatsoever.

How uplifting!

(no subject)

Date: 2005-01-13 03:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nmsunbear.livejournal.com
Yeah, I remember thinking when I saw that movie, "Gee, just buy another ticket to the Caribbean, I'm sure she'd love it." For goodness' sake, why lie to the girl?

The Quiltmaker's Gift

Date: 2005-01-13 05:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ann-totusek.livejournal.com
What a marvelous story! Peg, I didn't find what you had to say at all unclear. I understood it perfectly, and I've had the same problems with "The Giving Tree" as you have ever since my college used it as part of the "Caring Curriculum" in its nursing program. I'm going to suggest "The Quiltmaker's Gift to them as an alternative. Might I have permission to point them to your LiveJournal as a clear explanation as to why I'm making the suggestion?

Re: The Quiltmaker's Gift

Date: 2005-01-13 12:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pegkerr.livejournal.com
Sure, by all means be my guest! You might point them to all three entries, and the First Things entry, too.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-01-13 05:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elisem.livejournal.com
The Quiltmaker's Gift sounds like a pretty good book. I'll keep my eyes open for it. Thanks for the mention of it.

And yeah, the end of most trees is not being a stump. Heck, the end of an Araucaria tree of a particular species that lived a very long time ago might be as a piece of jet, carved into a bit of jewelry. (There's probably a story in that, too, especially as it was jewelry often used to remind the wearer of the beloved dead. And the tree turns into something it probably never dreamed of being. Do we get to be useful to things later that we can't even dream of now?)

Completely random, but I must say this.

Date: 2005-01-13 05:47 am (UTC)
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (Default)
From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com
There's probably a story in that, too, especially as it was jewelry often used to remind the wearer of the beloved dead. And the tree turns into something it probably never dreamed of being. Do we get to be useful to things later that we can't even dream of now?

That's an absolutely beautiful thought.

Well, it seems to me...

Date: 2005-01-13 12:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] huladavid.livejournal.com
...that _The_Giving_Tree_ isn't about giving so much as about taking.

Also, from what you say _Leaf_By_Niggle_ (which doesn't sound like the story I was thinking about...) & _The_Quiltmaker's_Gift_ have more to do with connecting to others -heck, the King in _TQG_ was probably a much better ruler after giving away everything & getting to know his people's needs better.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-01-13 01:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cakmpls.livejournal.com
As I say to someone below, a stump is not a natural end for a tree only if one does not consider humans to be part of nature. I do.

Maybe another difference here is that (and I have only just now realized this) I don't think of what the tree does--particularly if the allegory we are looking at is parent/child--as giving so much as providing or just doing or maybe even being. To me, when one does what is needed in a situation, that's not giving, it's just . . . doing, being, what one is meant to.

I'm not explaining this well, but I think I'm onto something that's at the heart of my viewpoint. I do not see anything that one does for another, that one provides for another--that one gives to another, if you will--as ever diminishing one, as long as it is done willingly. In my viewpoint, it can't diminish one, because one has simply been what one is.

Am I making any sense whatsoever? It's awfully early, and I've been up since 4:30.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-01-13 02:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elisem.livejournal.com
As I say to someone below, a stump is not a natural end for a tree only if one does not consider humans to be part of nature. I do.

Ah. Good point.

*pondering*

(no subject)

Date: 2005-01-13 02:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pegkerr.livejournal.com
I think what you're explaining in your last paragraph is partly what "Leaf by Niggle and The Quiltmaker's Gift were getting at with their symbology of the gift that is added to as things are given away. Niggle's tree (created by the divine) becomes more perfect and beautiful and complete as he refines himself. The King's quilt becomes more and more beautiful and complete with every possession he gives away. Niggle and the King are becoming something--moving toward their ideal state of being, perhaps--and this is expressed symbolically by the "coming-into-beingness" of Niggle's tree and the King's quilt.

Niggle's words when he finally sees the tree as he always imagined it: "It's a gift." It was created by his willingness to help Parish, and his giving has been rendered back to him by Divine Grace in the form that means the most to him.

(Not sure if I'm being very clear either!)

(no subject)

Date: 2005-01-13 05:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cakmpls.livejournal.com
Niggle and the King are becoming something--moving toward their ideal state of being, perhaps--

Perhaps the tree is also becoming something as it gives the boy what he needs. Just because the stump looks to some humans' eyes like a diminished version of the tree does not mean that it seems so to the tree itself.

Or maybe the difference is that the tree has no need to become; to be is its goal.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-01-13 03:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] liadan-m.livejournal.com
I have Quiltmaker's Gift on the shelf downstairs next to all the other books for my niece. And I will agree with you that the message is a better one than that of The Giving Tree. Both are important. And my niece will get both of them read to her at her bed time. I suspect she'll like TQG better, it has more colors. *grin*

I understand exactly what you were and are saying, but I thought that there was an equally valid POV on why the book is a good one for children. It is not the horrible thing that your initial post made it out to be.

The disscussion yesterday was a good one. It made me think about why and how I give and led to dinner with some people who helped me get back on track and manage everything I have in the air better. Thank you for sparking it.

Quilters

Date: 2005-01-13 09:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nwl.livejournal.com
I haven't read either book, but I have the companion book to The Quiltmaker's Gift to make some of the quilts. Seems to me it's not so much about giving things away in that just having possessions does not make one happy. It also is about the joy of making something for another person. I know I'm happier when I know I'm making a quilt for a specific person or cause than if I'm just making a quilt.

We like to go to antique malls and consignment shops and I always think about all the stuff that ends up there that was probably someone's prized possession at some point. We went to a consignment shop this past weekend and the place looked like people just dumped off boxes they had filled at some deceased relative's. There were two huge boxes of video tapes, all neatly labeled (but not rewound), boxes with a jumble of stationary items, and so on. No matter what we collect, we cannot take it with us.

I find The Quiltmaker's Gift website to be extremely interesting and suggestive:

And the charities listed just scratch the surface of the causes quilters are involved in. The Linus Project is a companion to ABC Quilts in that quilters make quilts for children undergoing medical procedures, such as cancer treatments. Then there are the quilts for breast cancer, etc.

My Guild probably has two or three charities going on at a time. Last year I made a bunch of little quilts for a Boy Scout's project for preemie babies. Come to think of it, I still have one ABC quilt to finish.

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