More Snapish speculations

[pegkerr]

I have a theory We have never heard where Snape was the night James and Lily were killed. If, as seems more and more likely after this latest book, that Snape loved Lily, and the reason he became Dumbledore's man was because he was filled with remorse because Lily was killed, how about this as a theory: what if, because he was filled with remorse that night, he made an unbreakable vow to Dumbledore on that night, to always obey him? That is why Dumbledore knows he can trust Snape. I suggest it because Rowling rarely introduces a new thing (such as a gimmick like the unbreakable vow) without using it several different ways over several different books.

Harry is comforted and filled with pride at the thought that he is "Dumbledore's man through and through." What a discovery it will be for him to learn that Snape was even more so, for years. And to learn that it was love for his mother that put Snape in the position to protect him all those times that Snape pulled his nuts out of the fire.

Gad, I love chewing over theories. Thoughts?

Edited to add: or perhaps this is better: Perhaps Snape offered to make it an unbreakable vow. Dumbledore didn't require it, because he values free will, but the fact that he offered is why Dumbledore trusted him?

Edited to add again: One hole in this theory: who would have been the witness to the bond? It is apparently a requirement when making an Unbreakable Vow. It wasn't McGonagall, obviously, and I can't think who else Dumbledore would have trusted that way, not to mention Snape.

Wild idea: unless it was Trelawney. She has a history of memory lapses.

kenfrequed suggests that Snape made an Unbreakable Vow to Dumbledore to protect Harry (see here). This is lovely and possible, but perhaps a little less possible than my idea, since Snape didn't show up at all or have any interaction with him until Harry got to Hogwarts.

Comments

[charlietudor.livejournal.com]

Ooh. I like that one. I like it a lot.

I also found something in the first few chapters of Order of the Phoenix (which I'm rereading because I realized partway into HBP that I remembered next to nothing of it) that really got my attention in a way that it could not possibly have before HBP and the speculations about who RAB is:

There was a music box that emitted a faintly sinister, tinkling tune when wound, and they all found themselves becoming curiously weak and sleepy until Ginny had sense to slam the lid shut; also a heavy locket that none of them could open....--p 116, in "The Noble and Most Ancient House of Black."

Just a quick throw-away line....or....*bum*bum*BUUUUUM*

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, the fans seized onto that one within 24 hours of HBP coming out. And I speculated on another thread that this is why she had that scene with Harry confronting Mundungus Fletcher about stealing silver from 12 Grimmauld Place.

I'm 95% sure Harry will find out in the next book that Regulus took the locket, that was the locket they found in the Black mansion--and Fletcher has already fenced it.

[charlietudor.livejournal.com]

Ahh, then once again I'm out of the loop. ;D

[malinaldarose.livejournal.com]

Has Fletcher fenced it or did Kreacher manage to make off with it and hide it somewhere?

[avengangle.livejournal.com]

This is what I thought, because that would force a confrontation with Kreacher.

[malinaldarose.livejournal.com]

And that'll have to happen eventually anyway, I should think.

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think you are right. And so much turned on the plot in OotP about Kreacher lying. So that has to be addressed in Book 7.

Also: in GoF: Sirius said (about Barty Crouch's mistreatment of Winky) that you can tell a man's character by how he treats his underlings. Yet he treated Kreacher with contempt; it was part of what led to his downfall. I want that discrepancy to occur to Harry. Part of his task in Book 7 is learning how to forgive, including Kreacher and Snape.

[avengangle.livejournal.com]

Oy vey . . . That's going to be one heck of a task. Obviously you're right, but imagine being seventeen and having to forgive two people who led to the deaths -- or outright killed, ignoring any other information -- pretty much every parental figure you've ever had . . .

[wordsworthy.livejournal.com]

There is a really excellent fanfic story, Harry Potter and the Eye of the Storm that madlorivoldmort recommended to me which is (among many other things) Harry's anger and resentment toward Kreacher and why he has to overcome it. Here it is (http://fanfiction.portkey.org/story/3121/1) (not finished yet, alas, but I'm keeping an eye on it for updates). Read in particular Chapter 7 here (http://fanfiction.portkey.org/story/3121/7), where Remus and Harry have an incredibly good long conversation about why Harry must forgive Kreacher. Highly recommended.

[psychic-serpent.livejournal.com]

I like both the Unbreakable Vow theory (I'm sure there's someone who could have witnessed it--perhaps Moody?) and the locket-in-Grimmauld Place Theory. But I think Dung stealing the silver was a necessary red herring to get Harry et al chasing after the various things Dung has fenced after they find the locket gone from the house. They'll need to remember that Kreacher has magpie tendencies to find the locket; he wasn't just hoarding framed photos in his little lair. And since Harry can order him about now Harry just needs to order Kreacher to give him the locket. I have a sneaking suspicion that no one will think of this for quite a distance into the seventh book, though.

[aurianrose.livejournal.com]

I was thinking something very similar. It seems likely to me, especially since I cannot believe that Snape is evil. It just doesn't seem to be JKR's style.

I think Lily's the key to a lot in the series. JKR hints at that in the Leaky Cauldron interview.

[fireriven.livejournal.com]

Especially considering how much Lily was played up in this book, and in connection to Potions no less...

[vass]

What would it take to make him swear *two* Unbreakable Vows? I'd think that'd seal his doom. It'd be like being torn in two.

I think you're right that we'll hear more about the Unbreakable Vow (the idea, not Snape's and Narcissa's) in the next book.

[dormouse-in-tea.livejournal.com]

Completely wild thought...but given Dumbledore seems to know the future, to a limited extent at least, regarding certain things...what if he made Snape vow that he would make the Unbreakable Vow asked of him?

[jimhines.livejournal.com]

There's a part of me that hopes you're wrong about the vow. I like Snape's character a lot, and I'd rather see him struggling along this path, trying to do right, because he's choosing to do so. If he made the vow, it pretty much takes that choice away, and it would feel a bit diminished to me.

With that said, it's a danged good theory, and I wouldn't be surprised if you're right.

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

Still, it would have been entirely Snape's choice to make to enter the vow. Dumbledore would accepted it any other way. And that gets back entirely to that crucial line in CoS: It is our choices that make us what we are, far more than our abilities. The scene in the astronomy tower, by the way, between Draco and Dumbledore is a beautiful counterpart to that scene between Dumbledore and Harry from book 2: he is trying to explain to Draco what he explained to Harry: your choice here is what makes you. You have a choice--use it! Draco's error is that he hesitated a split second too long to choose. It remains to be seen whether that error will be a fatal one.

Or . . .

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

Perhaps Snape offered to make it an unbreakable vow. Dumbledore didn't require it, because he values free will, but the fact that he offered is why Dumbledore trusted him.

Re: Or . . .

[jimhines.livejournal.com]

That's perfect! The thing I don't like about the unbreakable vow theory is that it's a one-time choice. I much prefer seeing Snape having to constantly struggle and choose the best path, even when it's dark and difficult and ugly.

Oh yes, I'm very curious to see what happens with Draco now, too. I like the fact that Harry felt pity for Draco. Until now, Harry's been pretty black and white about who's evil and who's not.

Re: Or . . .

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

On the other hand, there is a point to made that some choices, one time choices, that are so crucial that they shape and change the course of your entire life (like, for example, Peter's betrayal of James and Lily. Or Frodo's decision to take the Ring to Mordor. Or, perhaps, Draco's too-long hesitation in the Astronomy Tower)

[ali-wildgoose.livejournal.com]

I definately have my suspicions regarding Snape, Dumbledore and Unbreakable Vows...though really, I'd almost rather there not be one between them. I feel like, if I'm right and Snape IS Dumbledore's Man after all, I'd be sad if it was cheapened by the fact that he had no choice because of a magical contract. I much prefer free will, myself ;}

I just replied above

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

Perhaps Snape offered to make it an unbreakable vow. Dumbledore didn't require it, because he values free will, but the fact that he offered is why Dumbledore trusted him

[amethistdolphin.livejournal.com]

The offer of an unbreakable vow would probably fool Dumbledore who likes to see good in all people... what if he is indeed evil?

hehehe just playing devil`s advocate. I dont believe this.

I think the offer of an unbreakable vow would be good enough for dumbledore, but I think it will not be only that...

[tanaise.livejournal.com]

Yeah, my friends and I have speculated that it's highly unlikely that Snape could possibly end up being bad simply because it would mean that Harry had been right to dislike Snape at first sight, and that's very much not the way she's writing these books. I was guessing that there was a vow of some sort involved in there--at the very least, Snape killed Dumbledore with his--'permission', I suppose--foreknowledge that it might be necessary, something like that. And I believe that Dumbledore would have prefered to be killed by Snape before making a child, even Draco, either kill him or suffer for his continued life.

I've remarked to a few friends that one of the very coolest things that Rowling is doing is taking these black and white characters--Voldemort and Harry's Dad, for example--and making them gradually more grey--Voldemort was orphaned and never treated especially well (we'll ignore the fact that he didn't seem to merit better treatment for the case of this discussion) and Harry's dad was a bit of a bully and a show off. Nothing earthshaking or anything, but gradual underminings of the idea that good guys can do no wrong and bad guys are just plain evil.

[dichroic.livejournal.com]

That's one problem I have with all the discussion I've seen about "Is Snape Good or Evil?" and "Will Snape be Redeemed?" JKR is twisty, and has surprised me a number of times; on the other hand she's only twisty to a certain extent, maybe because so many of her readers are so young. For example, all the foreshadowing of R&H wasn't really going to Hermione and Harry as a couple: too big a twist.

But I wonder, will the twist be that Snape is Good after all, as so many of us are guessing? Or is all the building up of his equivocal character going to lead to a revelation that he really is ..... equivocal? Maybe he really is serving both sides, at least to some extent.

Hope you don't mind a stranger popping in

[merebrillante.livejournal.com]

I was flist-hopping and came across this thread. At the end of HP6, I had completely lost faith in Snape. I figured everyone who believed he was really good was just an apologist, like those who argued that Sirius couldn't really be dead. However, you all have begun to shake my certainty.

Re: Hope you don't mind a stranger popping in

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

Thanks for joining in! I enumerate the reasons why Snape must have been following Dumbledore's direction when he killed him at greater length in this entry.

Just visiting

[suzan-s.livejournal.com]

I hope you don't mind that I have come by to visit your LJ. I followed it from another discussion about Snape and "What's he up to, really? So glad to read all these theories. Book #6 just seem to leave so many questions hanging. Maybe I should go back and read #5 again!!

Re: Just visiting

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

Hi, thanks for stopping by! My fuller explanation of why Snape did what he did is here.

Re: Just visiting

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

where did you see the pointer to my journal on the other discussion, by the way? I'd be curious to follow it back.

Re: Just visiting

[merebrillante.livejournal.com]

I mentioned it to her in a comment on my journal. :)

[boniblithe.livejournal.com]

I bet the bonder was Slughorn!