Philosophical question re: depression

[pegkerr]

I'd like to get my friends' list's perspective on this: what benefits can be derived from depression? Tell me, either from your own perspective or from knowing someone close to you who has experienced it. I'm not talking about feeding neurotic needs, something like "it gets me attention." Instead, I'm talking about . . . well, not advantages, exactly, but what gifts it has brought you, what is it about depression that you can honestly say has made you (or someone you know) a better person.

I have my own opinions on this, but I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.

All replies are screened for your privacy; please let me know whether it is okay with you for me to make them public after I have read them, and I will respect your wishes. If you don't say one way or another, I will keep the comment screened. Thanks.

Comments

[splagxna.livejournal.com]

i think it made me a more sympathetic, accepting person (more understanding); i think it made me more grateful for my joys; and the therapy helped me to understand myself so much better, and to like myself better.

ok to unscreen this comment.

[barondave.livejournal.com]

I typed in a longer reply which got lost in the aether. How depressing... so let me just repost the part you can unscreen.

One of the few useful things about being down is that it forces me to shorten my goals. Small steps and all that. This is only useful when I don't need to do big things (such as find a job).

Depression

[markiv1111.livejournal.com]

I am a far, far stronger songwriter when in the throes of clinical depression. (I strongly suspect you have at least a hundred friends out there who don't know me, or know that songwriting is really what I do, despite my having made less money at it than I would like.) I do far more lyrics, and they are better lyrics -- and I don't only mean depressed lyrics. (I wrote "Afraid of the Desperate" and "For You, I'd Get a Vasectomy," almost simultaneously.) Sometimes when depressed, I can just get into a guitar-practicing jag and do some of the best playing I have ever done, at least after I have spent the first half hour or so warming up. But the depression is lethal to my friendships, and hell on my day jobs. And by the way, I am not remotely "hidden" on such topics as this, so no need to keep it screened. (Also notice a song of mine called "Convention Report." elisem said that I have made a thing of beauty, but several other people have said it should never have been written. And I think the first few people to hear it should have done whatever it took to get me into a hospital, rather than just letting me sing it.) I can't stay focused on the same task long enough to write fiction while depressed, though.

Nate

[mab-browne.livejournal.com]

Perhaps not the depression itself, but the process of working through it gave me the chance to review my life and situation, and accept myself. Counselling gave me the chance to acknowledge and express anger, which has always been difficult for me.

I've reached the point where I acknowledge that I'll probably always have to be on my guard against depression, just as a diabetic has to always monitor their blood sugar, so it's forced me to a form of discipline if nothing else. Simply accepting any chronic health problem and the losses, both actual and potential, that it implies is hard, but it's necessary. I feel that I have the conscious ability to live more gracefully now.

Unscreen if you'd like. :-)

[mizzlaurajean.livejournal.com]

I found two bouts with serious depression very humbling. I think that I became more patient and understanding.

I've also found the IVF to give me a greater understanding of how much ones hormones effect ones mood and outlook and how challenging it can be to control that.

All that said I still have a difficult time having sympathy for people with depression who are not proactive in treating it.

feel free to share my comments.

[pameladean]

I'm not going to go into detail, and you can unscreen this if you think it says anything useful.

I'm glad that I'm not much prone to depression, because I don't think I could cope with it. All my most lamentable traits would gang up on me rather than on it. That said, the people I know with partially-treated depression, particularly those who have been lucky enough to have a good therapist or three, seem to have a heightened awareness of their own faults and virtues and an ability to track what's going on with their brains; they are intelligent about themselves and about other people in a way seldom, though not never, matched by peoplel who haven't had to go through their particular hell.

That said, I don't really know if depression really creates these valuable traits or if people who have them already learn to use them more handily in extremis, while others who haven't just flounder. I don't recommend it as a strengthener of character, but sometimes it works that way.

P.

[shandra.livejournal.com]

This is fine to unscreen.

For me the chemical depression taught me a fair amount in letting go. Letting go of a view of myself as having or being able to achieve control over everything in my life. I also learned that sometimes help is there when you need it (and to be the help that's needed, but that came later).

With situational depression I think I've learned that it is all right to truly grieve and mourn and feel the earth's damp underbelly.

This is very timely as for the fourth year I am going away to be down/blue/depressed for the dates of my daughter's short life, and as the time passes other people seem to understand less well why I need that space to basically fall apart for a few days; our culture suggests that with the right combination of therapy and drugs I would be over it by now. But it's still my truth that those days are where I meet the unfairness of life over and over and DARN IT I claim the right to be depressed.

[http://users.livejournal.com/anam_cara_/]

My aunt and uncle lost their first child (under a year old) over 20 years ago, and are still very involved with the support group Compassionate Friends (for parents who have lost a child). I don't know how there can be a time limit for grief over losing a child.

You have my sympathies as well.

Feel free to unscreen

[tesla-aldrich.livejournal.com]

My family has always been against psychotherapy, calling it quackery. I felt the same way until I was 23. That was when I started getting chest pains and having trouble breathing properly. I went to a doctor to figure out what was going on, had a bunch of tests, and discovered that nothing was physically wrong with me. The doctor referred me to a psychologist, and working with him I figured out what was causing my depression (a combination of SAD and internal conflict about some personal choices) and came up with an approach to alleviating it without using drugs. I only saw that psychologist a few times, but he helped me develop an analytical awareness of my situation that I use literally every day.

So I learned a respect for the psychiatric profession and a level of self-awareness and self-forgiveness that I don't think I would have come to without struggling with depression. I have also been able to recognize depression in friends and encourage them to get help.

(Feel free to unscreen this.)

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

A person with depression will use less resources than one without. In fact, he or she may commit suicide, which will make them use NO more resources.

Other than that, there are no benefits to depression. Any more than there are benefits to lupus or cancer. It's an evil, horrible disease, and it does nothing except destroy people.

Please unscreen this comment.

reasonable enough, but even so....

[markiv1111.livejournal.com]

I would agree with this completely, were it not for my own history of writing some of my best songs when seriously depressed -- and for that matter, one extremely strong lyric when I found out I had cancer. Even so, I think the most important thing for depressives is to *get treatment* -- it is so worth it. I think if I had written one full album's worth of great songs, and the album had made it to the charts, but I had suicided before it was released, everybody who knows me would have considered it a dramatic net loss.

(Yes -- unscreen. Unscreen. Unscreen.)

Nate

(unscreenable, if you're wondering, Peg.)

[juliansinger.livejournal.com]

I don't even know you, and I'd consider it a net loss.

[thomasyan.livejournal.com]

Please unscreen this comment.

I also don't see any benefits to my depression. The one exception is that it has made me more understanding of others with mental illness.

I am a counterexample to the thesis that those depressed use less resources. I sometimes buy stuff to try to cheer myself up, and also since I do not have the energy to wash clothes and dishes, I will buy new clothes and use disposable plates and silverware.

[laurel]

I definitely cut people a lot of slack and give them the benefit of the doubt, more so than I might have if I didn't deal with my own mental illness (and that of others).

I think I care more about folks intentions than end results than I might otherwise.

I've always been understanding and good at putting myself in the shoes of others and giving people the benefit of the doubt, but I think depression etc. has made that even more important to me than it would be otherwise.

I can relate well to people who also experience depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, etc. Something that many can't do, if they haven't been there. I think those who are there can be helped and comforted by those who know what it's like. I'm told I'm good at talking and writing about this stuff and helping people to understand, which is a Good Thing.

It's okay to make this public, I've talked about this stuff on the radio, I can surely talk openly about it here. :)

[aome.livejournal.com]

You may unscreen if you wish.

I suppose it helps the sense of being a survivor - that you can take one day at a time and tough it out, then look back later in better times and know that it was worth it to still be here, still surviving. Also, even in dark times when it sometimes hardly seemed worth going on, I was able to remind myself that, even if it didn't feel like it, I knew people loved me a LOT and would miss me terribly. It's good to remember that sort of thing sometimes.

[kijjohnson.livejournal.com]

It's maybe not what you want to hear, but I don't believe there are any advantages to depression that wouldn't also come from living mindfully. Depression does make good things and feeling good noticeable; but so does just being aware.

I don't care if you make this public or not.

[mayakda.livejournal.com]

In my case, it's a symptom of a physical ailment, so seeking help for the depression got the ailment diagnosed.
Not what you meant, I know.

Although, what that did is help me to understand that depression is not a moral failure or weakness, simply a natural human reaction.

(No need to screen.)

[rachet.livejournal.com]

It taught me to be more patient with myself. And I'm now a lot more understanding to those around me who are going through it, too.

I've also accepted that therapy is NOT a waste of time. Sometimes you DO need someone not related to you and not in your life in any aspect to listen, dissect your thoughts and reactions and emotions and help you get through them and see things in a different light, at a different angle, etc.

you can unscreen. I don't mind.

[corinnethewise.livejournal.com]

It has made me appreciate being happy more, I think. I'm a lot better than I was in high school, due to a lot of things, and I am thrilled that I have had only a few bad days this month, instead of a bad month. I wake up and I want to be alive, I like myself, I'm contented. Maybe I'm not super happy thrilled all the time, but I really appreciate the feeling of being okay. And when I am happy, the contrast is phenomenal.

Also, it has made me trust other people more, and rely on other people. When you just hate who you are, you really have to be able to believe the people who say you are a good, worthwhile person. You have to let your support structure support you sometimes. I didn't used to be any good at that, I was fiercely independent. I appreciate community more now.

You can unscreen if you want.

sure, unscreen.

[juliansinger.livejournal.com]

I kind of agree with Xiphias (if a bit less strongly), but.

I also think that in many cases, the folks who don't accept what depression is telling them, and work to find ways to either move out of it or to mindfully accept what is, (often) have more self-awareness, and more ability to empathise with people.

Not to any extreme degree, but somewhat.

(One could argue that anyone who gets counseling/therapy can have those benefits, but it feels somewhat different to me, from the inside.)

[cakmpls.livejournal.com]

Certainly you can unscreen this if it is of any value.

I have never been clinically depressed. I have had situational depression (one of the two worst episodes was post-adoption of our first kid).

Like markiv1111--but very unlike his quality of work!--the best things I've ever written were written when I was depressed. I think that virtually everything I've ever written that was much good at all was written when I was at the very least melancholy.

[nmsunbear.livejournal.com]

I gained a few things from my period of depression. First, I really value my increased ability to empathize with people who are experiencing anxiety or depression; I had no insight or comprehension of them before, and it's a good thing to have.

More generally, I started to appreciate other people a lot more than I used to. I want to be with people more, I want to listen to them, I want to be good to them and learn from them. It's hard to express why that time made me more open to and interested in other people, but it absolutely did. I would never have considered taking on my current Member Development job at church without having been through that. (Let me clarify, though, that I couldn't have taken it on during that time, either -- only after.)

It also got me to be much more physically healthy, because exercise was one of the few things that consistently made the sadness and fear go away, at least for a little while, and it got me into a habit.

But boy oh boy am I glad it's over. I never want to go back there.

(Yes, you may unscreen this.)

[huladavid.livejournal.com]

I think the best thing I got out of a depressive bout was the realization that I was more fragile than I thought and much stronger than I gave myself credit for.

My last bout (about 2-2 1/2 years ago) was the most... "learningful" of the three that I've had. With the two previous ones I was back to 'normal' within a couple of months, but this time I'm working on things more. Also the DBT classes have been a godsend!

[huladavid.livejournal.com]

Dang it! I forgot to tell you that you could unscreen my comment--'learningful' and all.

[lavendersleeves.livejournal.com]

I'd like to say, "if I never had depression, I'd..." and compare things that way, but it's part of my personality. It's just there. But the difference between before and now is that I recognize this tendency and I'm aware of it. In fact, it forced me to be far more self-aware. I had to learn to recognize my changes in mood and more importantly, recognized what caused those changes.

The biggest thing I learned was stress management. I look at the alcoholics and violence in my family and think, I'd have dealt with my problems one way or another. If I hadn't faced my emotions head on, I would have tried to drown them, or inflicted them on others, or maybe I would have let them eat at me alive--ulcers or suicide, or other kinds of self-harm. (I know for a while I stopped brushing my teeth at night).

So I learned how to fight back. The result is that I face things more positively than many people I know. I'm less likely to get upset over things beyond my control, and I'm more proactive about the things that I can change. Sometimes I feel like I have two personalities--one the child, who wants to eat chocolate and hide from the world, and one the parent who must get that child out of bed and out the door.

I don't know if this is useful, but you needn't screen it.

[faris-nallaneen.livejournal.com]

ODE ON MELANCHOLY

NO, no! go not to Lethe, neither twist
Wolf's-bane, tight-rooted, for its poisonous wine;
Nor suffer thy pale forehead to be kist
By nightshade, ruby grape of Proserpine;
Make not your rosary of yew-berries,
Nor let the beetle, nor the death-moth be
Your mournful Psyche, nor the downy owl
A partner in your sorrow's mysteries;
For shade to shade will come too drowsily,
And drown the wakeful anguish of the soul.

But when the melancholy fit shall fall
Sudden from heaven like a weeping cloud,
That fosters the droop-headed flowers all,
And hides the green hill in an April shroud;
Then glut thy sorrow on a morning rose,
Or on the rainbow of the salt sand-wave,
Or on the wealth of globèd peonies;
Or if thy mistress some rich anger shows,
Emprison her soft hand, and let her rave,
And feed deep, deep upon her peerless eyes.

She dwells with Beauty — Beauty that must die;
And Joy, whose hand is ever at his lips
Bidding adieu; and aching Pleasure nigh,
Turning to poison while the bee-mouth sips:
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine,
Though seen of none save him whose strenuous tongue
Can burst Joy's grape against his palate fine;
His soul shall taste the sadness of her might,
And be among her cloudy trophies hung.
— John Keats (The Oxford Book of English Verse:
1250-1900, 1919 edition)

[this is fine to be public, btw...I think Keats would want it that way.]

[zephyrious.livejournal.com]

It's controversial, but some studies have indicated that depressed individuals are more accurate in their perceptions of some things. I think I recall one of these things being how much control they had over an outcome.

I find it useful to be able to tap into that POV when I need to evaluate information. Not that it necessarily makes me a better person, but perhaps I sometimes have better judgment. Just looks like skepticism though.

no need to screen, besides, the world has moved on...

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

Something else I was thinking about, and feel free to unscreen.

I see people conflating three very, very different things here.

1) Clinical depression.

2) Situational depression.

3) Melancholy.

They have NOTHING to do with one another. It is possible, I think, that "clinical depression" is a situation in which the body triggers the effects of "situational depression", without the situation, and that that is where it comes from. But that's just speculation.

Clinical depression is a disease and has no benefits. But situational depression may have benefits, and melancholy CERTAINLY does.

When someone suffers a significant loss, such as the death of a loved one, that person is very likely to fall into situational depression. And I think that that's a useful thing. I think that situational depression is like a circuit breaker in your emotions -- the pain of that loss would be crippling, so a fuse blows out in your ability to feel, act, and do, and you shut down, barely able to take the most basic actions to keep yourself alive.

Communities have rituals and customs which are designed to keep the sufferer alive and physically healthy until their mind has a chance to process enough to turn their emotions back on, and be able to feel the sorrow and pain of the loss.

We Jews have a three-step process. For the first week, the mourner is not to do ANYTHING except sit in a darkened room, with people coming over to sit silently with them and feed them. Of course, if the mourner WANTS to talk, or do anything, the community allows them to take the lead in doing so, but the first stage of situational depression is to allow the person to be completely shut down and unable to care for themselves -- to wash, dress, or feed themselves.

The second stage is a month in which they are not expected to do anything happy. They are expected to go through the motions of life for the next month, but take no joy in anything.

After that point, it is expected that the person will be able to start to feel again, and they will then mourn for the next eleven months, able to feel happiness when happy things happen, but able to feel the necessary sorrow of their loss.

And that fits pretty well with situational depression: a time of complete shut-down, followed by a time of going through the motions, followed by a time of coming back to emotional life.

And I think that situational depression is a way that our minds deal with loss, without breaking us permanently, and driving us mad with grief.

Clinical depression is when you get stuck in one of those first two phases, with no external cause, and you do not come out of it. You're not protecting yourself against a grief, and you're not coming back to life over time.

Melancholy, on the other hand, is simply part of a full life. As people, we feel emotions, and we should be able to feel ALL emotions, happiness, anger, sadness, joy, disgust, in all their variations and flavors. "Melancholy" is one of those flavors that we ought to be able to experience and gain from.

For what it's worth, a depressed person cannot feel melancholy, nor happy, nor angry. Not in the most serious forms of depression. Even someone who's more lightly depressed can only feel those feelings in muted, dull ways.

But full emotional experiences? All emotions, experienced fully, are beautiful. I speak as someone who has suffered from clinical depression most of my life. I so very much value the feeling of melancholy, and of anger, and of grief, and of joy -- since, for most of my life, I could feel none of them.