Plan of action re: Ice Palace book

[pegkerr]

I brainstormed in my novel diary re: what I need to do to get the book moving again. I tried to identify what it is that is making me get stuck and think of a plan of action to address the problems.

Points of unease:

Opacity of Jack
Vagueness about how Rolf and Jack are allied
Feel that book doesn't have enough characters. All I really have are Solveig, Ingrid, Agnes, Jack and Rolf.
Lack of knowledge about architecture
Unease about proposed climax of the book. I haven't really sold it to myself; to me it smacks too much of the climax of my first book. Ugh. Like chewing used chewing gum.
Have not convinced myself that I have figured out satisfactorily What Happens To Rolf
I don't know what the fish are up to.
What does magic have to do with the story? The emotional arc?
Unsure about the dream opening sequence.

I thought about that if writing this book is metafiction, then this book is about self-doubt. How does the ice palace fit in?

Plan of action:

1) For the next week, try freewriting any way I can think of to get into Jack's mind:

Write from the P-O-V of someone in his apartment building
Someone who sees him on the bus (does he ride the bus?)
A coworker (not Solveig)
Someone who sees him at the neighborhood coffeeshop (does he drink coffee?)
What would a journalist say who interviews him about architecture?
Try applying the questions in the List Yourself book.

2) Once I have finished reading Tim Powers' Declare, start to try reading possible source books. Architecture, esp. in Twin Ciites. Any folklore (esp. Scandinavian) re: fish.

3) Think about how much time should be devoted to writing (per day? per week?), no excuses.

4) Reassess status of Jack at beginning of October.

Comments

[magentamn.livejournal.com]

I don't know if it helps any, but as I recall, "The Old Man and the Sea" by Hemingway only has one character. I think it's better to have a few major characters you can really work with. Five seems to be plenty.

If I run into anything about fish, magical or otherwise, I'll let you know ;-)

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

If I run into anything about fish, magical or otherwise, I'll let you know ;-)

Yeah, ask them what the hell they're up to if you see them.

[peacockharpy.livejournal.com]

Unsure about the dream opening sequence.

Your opening sequence (you read it at World Fantasy 2002, if I remember correctly) is wonderful. The cold air, and the breaking ice, and the shock of falling through, and the eye of the big fish (pike?) regarding little Solveig... I felt like I had plunged through, too.

In a completely unrelated note, I was amused to note that one of the Spanish language channels was playing a video of a Latin singer dancing around in front of... this year's Ice Palace! (Jennifer Pena, I think?) I wouldn't have known it was the Ice Palace if not for you. ;)

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

No, I like that section, too, I'm keeping it. What I'm talking about is the section right after that, the first section where Solveig is an adult. Actually, I don't show a dream. The section starts with Ingrid calling Solveig because she's having a nightmare, that animated ice statues are closing in around her, freezing her. If I actually bring ice statues to life at the end of the book (which I'm thinking of doing) it's too obvious. And if I do bring the ice statues to life, I'm afraid it's too much like the ending of So You Want to be a Wizard where all the statues in Central Park come to life. Grawf.

[kate_nepveu]

I think statutes coming to life is one of those archetypal images that just lives in the backbrain, or my backbrain at least; unless you also have a sentient sun and a bad-tempered car, I wouldn't worry about that too much.

[rysmiel.livejournal.com]

I think statutes coming to life is one of those archetypal images

Though I normally would not stoop to pouncing on typos, this from you is hilarious.

[kate_nepveu]

Oh, no, you're right, we definitely don't want statutes coming to life. Very scary. Even scarier than big stone or ice statues coming to life--I mean, the Internal Revenue Code could stun with a glance, and you don't even want to do know what the abortion restriction statutes might take it upon themselves to do.

I wonder if the "living constitution" theorists get tired of zombie jokes?

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

What's even funnier is that when I was typing my comment, I kept typing it "statutes," too. Repeatedly. Hilarious.

[kate_nepveu]

That's a really bad one for me--not only are my fingers sure that's what I meant to type, because I type it all the time, it's completely invisible to me because the shape of the words are so similar.

[peacockharpy.livejournal.com]

Pygmalion!

Isn't this part of your heart of flesh - heart of stone dichotomy though, the hard becoming soft, the frozen beginning to move? And the phrasing of "coming to life" -- rejecting the heart of stone not just for softness, but for living, for openness to others, for creativity -- is beautifully conveyed through the imagery there.

I say write your opening, and keep going. You can always excise it later if you so choose. Or maybe you can have Solveig dreaming that she is one of the statues, frozen and unable to move, waiting for the Thaw.

(Also, v. amused by "moving statutes.")

[jbru.livejournal.com]

The only fish-oriented folklore I know is of polynesian origin so I don't know if that would be at all useful to you. I would suspect that there is some native American folklore involving fish, particularly in from the Pacific Northwest.

Best of luck with the new plan!

[trinker.livejournal.com]

There's usually fish folklore in fisher communities, and I think there are some wish-granting fish stories in Northern Europe...

[papersky.livejournal.com]

There's an Irish story about the salmon of knowledge where the salmon has been eating hazelnuts that drop into a well, then Finn eats the salmon -- or in fact, just licks his finger when a drop of fat from the salmon falls on it when he's cooking it for an evil wizard to eat, and attains knowledge.

I wonder if the eating the nuts thing might work with your seasonal magic?

Jack noodling, shut me up if this kind of thing isn't helpful:

You could keep writing Jack from outside until you can see inside. Jack's got to be a real modern person as well as whatever else. He's also a trickster. He must have started off awfully skeptical about the magic. What's his family background? I'd see him as having a little boy who wants to believe, a young adult self who wants to be cynical and it's maybe the connecting of the two that lets him go for the magic even if it's evil, even if there's a price, and then he needs to find a way to be a wise adult with a heart of flesh. So you have the triple woman as three women, and you have the triple man all in Jack, with the wrong adult self in Rolf, who has grown old without growing up. It would seem to me that considering what Jack has to learn from Ingrid and Agnes might be useful.

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

Yes, I did know that Irish story, and was interested in tracing roots to see if there were any related fish-wisdom stories in the Scandinavian tradition.

V. good and helpful thoughts about Jack. What Jack has to learn from Ingrid and Agnes: I will think about that. I remember Tim Powers once saying that it's extremely helpful to find out what your character wants the most and what they fear the most. To drive the plot, try to put those two things in conflict with each other.

I will add all these thoughts to the hopper while pondering. Thanks!

Fish 'N Stuff

[huladavid.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure why I'm suggesting this, but have you read _Lost_Twin_Cities_? It's about architecture to some extent - mainly about buildings/landmarks in the Twin Cities that have been torn down.

What about the symbolism of fish in Christianity? The fish symbol that early believers used thats now been reduced to a bumper sticker?

Then there's the fairy tale about the poor fisherman who catches a magical fish that grants him wishes, but his wife keeps on wanting more & more.

Re: Fish 'N Stuff

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

I do have a copy of Lost Twin Cities and plan to look through it.

Yeah, I need to trace fish imagery/symbology. The motif I seem to be drawn to the most is fish as symbol of wisdom.

Re: Fish 'N Stuff

[huladavid.livejournal.com]

I've been doing a little bit of "fish" reading, but not finding a whole lot - mostly Native American myths, and it kind of surprises me that there's not more there. The only thing I've found is one of the tribes (out in the Pacific northwest, I think...) uses salmons as a totem animal , but haven't found out what they do.

Maybe you'll find this funny, but I'm tripping across fish left & right. It got so bad that when I walked into my neighborhood coffee shop & noticed that the owner was wearing a t-shirt with three fishes on it I nearly ran out the door screaming.

Did a little bit of looking into the astrological sign Pisces. One thing that I ran across is that they're a little too "otherworldly", and I thought maybe that's why you're having problems figuring out what the fish are up to. They're on a different plain, and _just_think_different.

Ta.

Fish Are Jumping...

[huladavid.livejournal.com]

Just got back from my walk along Lake Harriet, and I kept hearing the fish jumping. I'm gonna take that as a good sign that they're hard at work trying to help you.

You've probably already said this, but I'm guessing that you're using mainly European magic/myths as sources for fish magic. Have you looked into Native American/First Nation myths? I've a copy of _American_Indian_Myths_And_Legends_ that I can look through for you. (This also has me wondering how European & Native American myths & magic clash with/complement each other. I wonder if there's anything from _American_Fairy_Tales by Frank Baum you could use.)

Also, do you know of the Deaf expression "Fish don't think about water."? If I remember correctly it has to do with how Deaf people don't "think" about sign language, but it could also mean that what is ubiquitious isn't seen.

[arcly.livejournal.com]

Some of these articles on women architects are quite interesting - you might be able to glean some ideas about how she'd evolve a design practice, or aesthetic, in her world.

Am just an occasional lj-reader, but am interested in the book and know a fair bit about architecture (used to live with an architect) - feel free to mail any questions: arcly_ym@yahoo.co.uk

[pegkerr.livejournal.com]

Oh, thank you! This looks like a wonderful resource which I will explore. And I will keep your offer in mind, thanks!

[elfundeb.livejournal.com]

<<2) Once I have finished reading Tim Powers' Declare, start to try reading possible source books. Architecture, esp. in Twin Ciites. Any folklore (esp. Scandinavian) re: fish.>>

This prompted me to pull my long-neglected Norwegian Folktales off the bookshelf, and I was astounded to find that not a single story included a fish character -- only props. I wonder why that is, though one possibility is that much Norwegian folklore comes from the interior counties, among the mountains and fjords.

The fact that the last tale in the book was a Norwegian version of The Wild Swans (with ducks) seems to be a sign that this is a fruitful avenue to pursue. I think I'll ask my mom if she recalls being told any fish tales as a child.