Fame, fan-girls, etc.
Apr. 27th, 2003 06:43 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
I've been thinking about making this entry for a few days. I've struggled a bit over the drafting of it, and I'm not certain I've expressed myself very well and fear I will end up looking like a fool, but oh, well. If I blow it, I suppose you'll forgive me eventually. Here goes.
I've thought about this periodically through the years, throughout my growth as a writer, and it came to the forefront again for me just recently because of some of the replies I received on my entries concerning career envy and my dinner with Pat and Lois.
How to say this without sounding . . . um. Like I'm being coy. Or like someone who presents a face of false modesty, but is really a condescending, egotistical boor. Like Gilderoy Lockhart. Or Lena in "Singing in the Rain," who says to a crowd who have come out to see the premiere of one of her movies, "Thank you so much for letting our movies brighten up your hum drum little lives."
Um. Well. Yes, I'm a professional writer, meaning that I've written books that have been published. But please believe me, I'm just a person like everyone else. If you've been following my journal for a while, you know that I also have a very mundane day job, have to cope with a messy house, and periodically have to fight off the urge to throttle my kids.
Yes, I'm friends with some other writers who are well-known. Some I've known for a long time (Pat went to college with Rob), and some I've just gotten to know gradually over the years. Some I've known since long before they were publishing.
(And here's the part I'm really nervous that I'm not going to express very well:) I hope that you understand that when I talk in my journal about a pleasant evening with Pat and Lois it's not because I'm trying name-drop, to get across the idea "I hang out with famous people (and you don't)." Yes, Pat and Lois are very well-known. But I don't think about that when I spend time with them, because they're both very friendly and down-to-earth people. In that way, they are a fine example for me! Part of what I'm doing (I hope) in this journal is demystifying writing (and writers). We got together for dinner, like friends do, and we talked about Lois's trip and looked at post cards, and I went home with Pat and admired her walk in closet. Very normal, isn't it?
Listen, I understand the urge to be a fan-girl. I understand it because I've been a fan-girl, too. I remember when my heart would pound and my hands would sweat whenever I tried to talk to someone whose work I admired. I sought out authors for conversations, because I wanted to learn all I could from them, but felt so self-conscious, so afraid of saying the wrong thing, like they were demi-gods or something, who would look down their noses at me because I wasn't published, and therefore not as cool as they were. And what's more I'm still a fan-girl. There are still writers that make me feel that way when I have the chance to speak to them in conversation.
I think I started mulling over this for the first time when I read Emma Bull's War for the Oaks, and I went to her book signing. We'd known each other as sort of distant acquaintances in the Minneapolis sf fandom world. I had brought a card for her in which I told her how much I'd loved her book. I was so nervous giving her the card, afraid she would think I was a dork. I got the book signed, and then went and browsed nearby bookshelves, but really trying to eavesdrop on her conversations with other people. I heard her open the card and exclaim aloud to herself when she read it, in delight and awed disbelief: "Three times! She says she read it three times!" I suddenly realized that while I was overwhelmed at the very idea of trying to talk to her, Published Author, she was overwhelmed at the very idea that I liked her work so much.
It feels extremely strange to realize that I'm starting to have that effect on other people. I am surprised when I realize that people sometimes get nervous talking to me. I've been brought up sharply once or twice by the realization that what I say in my LiveJournal carried an inordinate amount of weight, simply because my books been published.
I remember once years back when I was working on an sf convention committee, and one of the things we did was to send a letter to the SFWA list of published writers, telling them that if they would be willing to come to our convention, we would be happy to have them and would waive the registration fee. I got a phone call from one author (who shall remain nameless) who seemed irate that we would DARE to invite him to a convention without paying his hotel and travel expenses. Didn't we have any idea how important he was? He was accustomed to better treatment than our shabby little invitation. I remember hanging up the phone and telling Rob that I hoped that God would strike me dead before I ever got that egotistical and puffed-up with myself.
So I guess what I want to say to you is, if you ever see me at Nimbus or Wiscon or at a book-signing somewhere, and you'd like to talk to me, don't be shy because of who I am or who I know. Come on up and strike up a conversation with me. I write books, but please don't let that intimidate you. Many of the people I respect the most, whose conversations I enjoy the most have never dreamed of writing books. I really REALLY don't ever want to become a Gilderoy Lockhart, narcissistically fixated all the time on my own fame. But if you do feel nervous about meeting or talking with me, I'll understand, believe me. It's okay.
(Okay. Now I'm hesitating whether to post this.)
(Okay . . . posting.)
(And ducking)
Cheers,
Peg
I've thought about this periodically through the years, throughout my growth as a writer, and it came to the forefront again for me just recently because of some of the replies I received on my entries concerning career envy and my dinner with Pat and Lois.
How to say this without sounding . . . um. Like I'm being coy. Or like someone who presents a face of false modesty, but is really a condescending, egotistical boor. Like Gilderoy Lockhart. Or Lena in "Singing in the Rain," who says to a crowd who have come out to see the premiere of one of her movies, "Thank you so much for letting our movies brighten up your hum drum little lives."
Um. Well. Yes, I'm a professional writer, meaning that I've written books that have been published. But please believe me, I'm just a person like everyone else. If you've been following my journal for a while, you know that I also have a very mundane day job, have to cope with a messy house, and periodically have to fight off the urge to throttle my kids.
Yes, I'm friends with some other writers who are well-known. Some I've known for a long time (Pat went to college with Rob), and some I've just gotten to know gradually over the years. Some I've known since long before they were publishing.
(And here's the part I'm really nervous that I'm not going to express very well:) I hope that you understand that when I talk in my journal about a pleasant evening with Pat and Lois it's not because I'm trying name-drop, to get across the idea "I hang out with famous people (and you don't)." Yes, Pat and Lois are very well-known. But I don't think about that when I spend time with them, because they're both very friendly and down-to-earth people. In that way, they are a fine example for me! Part of what I'm doing (I hope) in this journal is demystifying writing (and writers). We got together for dinner, like friends do, and we talked about Lois's trip and looked at post cards, and I went home with Pat and admired her walk in closet. Very normal, isn't it?
Listen, I understand the urge to be a fan-girl. I understand it because I've been a fan-girl, too. I remember when my heart would pound and my hands would sweat whenever I tried to talk to someone whose work I admired. I sought out authors for conversations, because I wanted to learn all I could from them, but felt so self-conscious, so afraid of saying the wrong thing, like they were demi-gods or something, who would look down their noses at me because I wasn't published, and therefore not as cool as they were. And what's more I'm still a fan-girl. There are still writers that make me feel that way when I have the chance to speak to them in conversation.
I think I started mulling over this for the first time when I read Emma Bull's War for the Oaks, and I went to her book signing. We'd known each other as sort of distant acquaintances in the Minneapolis sf fandom world. I had brought a card for her in which I told her how much I'd loved her book. I was so nervous giving her the card, afraid she would think I was a dork. I got the book signed, and then went and browsed nearby bookshelves, but really trying to eavesdrop on her conversations with other people. I heard her open the card and exclaim aloud to herself when she read it, in delight and awed disbelief: "Three times! She says she read it three times!" I suddenly realized that while I was overwhelmed at the very idea of trying to talk to her, Published Author, she was overwhelmed at the very idea that I liked her work so much.
It feels extremely strange to realize that I'm starting to have that effect on other people. I am surprised when I realize that people sometimes get nervous talking to me. I've been brought up sharply once or twice by the realization that what I say in my LiveJournal carried an inordinate amount of weight, simply because my books been published.
I remember once years back when I was working on an sf convention committee, and one of the things we did was to send a letter to the SFWA list of published writers, telling them that if they would be willing to come to our convention, we would be happy to have them and would waive the registration fee. I got a phone call from one author (who shall remain nameless) who seemed irate that we would DARE to invite him to a convention without paying his hotel and travel expenses. Didn't we have any idea how important he was? He was accustomed to better treatment than our shabby little invitation. I remember hanging up the phone and telling Rob that I hoped that God would strike me dead before I ever got that egotistical and puffed-up with myself.
So I guess what I want to say to you is, if you ever see me at Nimbus or Wiscon or at a book-signing somewhere, and you'd like to talk to me, don't be shy because of who I am or who I know. Come on up and strike up a conversation with me. I write books, but please don't let that intimidate you. Many of the people I respect the most, whose conversations I enjoy the most have never dreamed of writing books. I really REALLY don't ever want to become a Gilderoy Lockhart, narcissistically fixated all the time on my own fame. But if you do feel nervous about meeting or talking with me, I'll understand, believe me. It's okay.
(Okay. Now I'm hesitating whether to post this.)
(Okay . . . posting.)
(And ducking)
Cheers,
Peg
(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-27 05:02 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-27 05:08 pm (UTC)So thank you for sharing.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-27 05:09 pm (UTC)I will say that I do expect my travel and hotel to be comped if I'm being asked to go to a conference to work -- to teach classes and/or be a keynote speaker -- but if I'm being invited to attend as an honored guest? Not on your tintype. I may or may not be able to go, depending on my finances, naturally, but if I'm not being asked to work and I want to be there, I'll go happily on my own dime. I also will do pro bono teaching/speaking when I can, for some organizations/people, but I just can't always afford to accept those engagements from a purely financial standpoint.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-27 05:17 pm (UTC)They Are People Too.
She went on to place in the contest in subsequent years, and then returned as a guest. She had a great time every year.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-27 05:23 pm (UTC)*Blushes* Thanks
Date: 2003-04-27 08:01 pm (UTC)Cheers,
Peg
Re: *Blushes* Thanks
Date: 2003-04-28 07:07 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-27 05:40 pm (UTC)But I *can* comment on being the nervous little fangirl - the thought constantly running through my mind in those types of situations is always, "What could *I* possibly say that would be important enough?" For the most part, I stay silent, and twitch, and watch everyone else carrying on and conversing. It takes a conscious effort to make myself take part, whether it be writing a comment or piping up in a conversation.
Thank you for posting that - and sentimental and cheesy as this sounds - I added you as a friend because I liked you as a writer, and kept you a friend because I liked you as a person.
*hides*
*Blushes*
Date: 2003-04-28 08:55 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-27 05:59 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-27 06:06 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-27 07:19 pm (UTC)Good luck navigating its intricacies.
B
That's an excellent definition, B
Date: 2003-04-27 07:48 pm (UTC)Peg
Re: That's an excellent definition, B
Date: 2003-04-27 08:31 pm (UTC)K. [has been thinking about this topic for a while now, though heaven knows I'm not famous]
Re: That's an excellent definition, B
Date: 2003-04-28 05:37 am (UTC)Peg
(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-27 07:30 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-27 07:40 pm (UTC)And if you do read it, and would like to tell me your reaction, feel free to drop me a line. Thanks!
Cheers,
Peg
(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-27 07:31 pm (UTC)I mean - this is one of the things I *love* about reading your LJ - that chance to see that someone 'famous' ( = published) *is* a real person. I really enjoy that aspect, hearing about your family life - good days and bad - as well as your plans and preparations for the new book. But there is still a bit of the awe about it, too -- wow, I've communicated, in however a small fashion, with the person behind these books I've read, my friend has read, my mom is about to read (I've just lent her WS). It's not an opportunity we readers are normally afforded - that chance to see the person behind the pages. [Incidentally, at one of the fandom meets I went to, I was half-tempted to ask one of my favourite authors for their autograph, lol.]
I get a little bit of it too, actually. I'm nowhere near as big a name as, say, Cassie, but I've had a few people express a similar reaction, and I hasten to assure *them* that I'm just an ordinary person. So - I feel like I'm on both sides here. I have an idea of how you must be feeling, but it doesn't seem to keep me from experiencing a bit of awe, all the same. You're *real* - and you're special, too.
I don't think at all that your post on your dinner the other night was ostentatious name-dropping. I just thought it was ... wonderful.
I don't feel like I've done a very good job of explaining myself here (although I do seem to be good at starting every paragraph with "I"). But ... well ... I'm sorry if my previous comments made you feel awkward, because it wasn't my intention at all. 'Ordinary' person you may be, but since public names (published/recorded/filmed/whatever) usually tend to remain a mystery to others, it's still a special thing to me to be able to get to know you (and your fellow author-friends), even if just on the internet.
Meeble.
Don't feel bad!
Date: 2003-04-27 07:59 pm (UTC)Peg
(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-27 07:32 pm (UTC)Then when you posted the other day about your friends Pat and Lois, it demystified them as well. I'm on another discussion group in which a few of the members were raving about Lois's books and then suddenly you're having lunch with her. Just another regular gal with a great talent for putting words together. Thanks for posting it because it humanizes writers.
Anyway. I'm glad for LJ so I can catch up with you again. And I'm so excited you are writing again, amidst the kids and the job and the every day life.
Carole
who can't wait to meet you at Nimbus so I can squee in person. :)
(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-27 07:45 pm (UTC)Having been around Twin Cities fandom for 25+ years, I know a whole truckload of SF and fantasy writers. But I knew every one of them before they were published, so I'd have a tough time goin' all fangirly on any of them.
I respect the talent that good writers have and the patience and drive that gets the writing down on paper and the stick-to-itiveness that gets them published eventually. But copyediting is kind of like watching sausage and laws made--it gives one another viewpoint on the process, and one never looks at the end product quite the same as do those who never see the making of it.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-27 08:02 pm (UTC)Finding you, and several other published writers, here on LJ and on the net in general, has really helped me get over the idea that "Other People Write Books". It's one of the steps I needed to take in my thinking in order to really commit to the idea of publishing--not just writing, but putting it out there for others to read--or trying to, anyway.
I find you truly courageous and determined, that you can work through a tough time and deal with family, work, *and* writing, and still be such a generous soul. Thank you.
MaryKate
(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-27 08:22 pm (UTC)In some ways, I DON'T want to meet my favorite authors. Example: I've been reading Anne McCaffrey for a long time now, and I love her work, and a couple years back, she went to DragonCon in Atlanta. I thought about going, but didn't, partly because by that time, my plans had changed and I'd flown back here from Boston, and there's no way I was could afford to fly halfway around the world to see one of my favorite authors, no matter how much I wanted to. And even if I hadn't flown back,, I was reluctant to go and meet her because I have this image of her in my head, and though she's replied very nicely to a couple of emails I and some other people have sent her, I have this odd... fear, I guess, that if I met her in person, she wouldn't be how I imagined her to be, and if I ended up disliking her, that would be very disillusioning and would probably spoil the books for me. Does that make sense?
Here's a confession: I haven't read your work either. *sheepish look* I found you on a friend's Friend list, and I liked what you were saying, and I like the Solveig bits you've been sprinkling here and there.... When I realized that DUH! you have books published, I looked in Amazon and tried to find them here, but this country is a fantasy/SF wasteland, so have been unsuccessful so far in acquiring them. I'm compiling a list of books I want to read but can't find here, and the next time someone I know is going to go over there, I'm going to ask them to buy the stuff for me (and reimburse them for it, of course).
And yes, writers are people too, and artists are people too, and scientists are people too, and all these famous people are people too. But in a sense, aside from their humanity, there's... something else. A wellspring of creativity, a touch of genius, an intense drive, a sense that... that these people have access to something the rest of us don't. So they're human, but... also more than human. Or perhaps it's more like they've gotten closer to what being human really means.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-27 08:29 pm (UTC)Just folks
Date: 2003-04-27 08:33 pm (UTC)Re: Just folks
Date: 2003-04-28 04:27 am (UTC)Peg, I love your posts here, about the day-to-day process of writing, of interacting with family, with friends, with friends-who-happen-to-also-be-writers. It's whole, and holy, and good.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-27 08:39 pm (UTC)Thank you for being here.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-27 09:25 pm (UTC)That's why I made myself go up and say hi in person at WFC. This may sound weird, but I knew I *could*, because I'd read your LJ and commented back and forth with you, and therefore I felt like I could talk to you because it was (if only slightly) more of a connection than "ooooo! squeeeee!" (
Also, I admire you because you have kids and you still make writing a priority! You give me hope! (And yes, we are typing with the sling these days.)
Your journal, and your willingness to let us watch your writing process, is a marvelous gift. Thank you. :)
- Darice
PS: Wild Swans made me cry deep wrenching sobs. I can't think of many books that have hit me that hard -- Bridge to Terabithia is the only one that jumps to mind at the moment.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-27 09:57 pm (UTC)This was cool to read. I like knowing celebrities are normal people too. If I ever get the chance to meet you I will attempt to start a conversation, provided I can like, produce sound. ;) (Are you coming to Nimbus? You mentioned it and that would be way cool. :D)
Allie
Yes, I'll be at Nimbus
Date: 2003-04-28 05:40 am (UTC)Peg
(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-28 12:22 am (UTC)I was an amateur writer before I became a fangirl... and I'm *still* more interested in the 'writing' part than the 'drooling' part, simply because that's what I want to do: write. It doesn't mean I find fandom 'inferior' though - even if my work involves non-fiction and my dreams lie with publishing original fiction. I love fanfic for many, many things and particularly for all I've learned - both good and bad.
Yeah, I'm a RL editor and translator (non-fiction) with a whole lot of stuff I've worked on published or in mass circulation. So much for bragging. BUT, God help me if I come over as a know-it-all. I often volunteer to edit and beta fanfic because I honestly want to contribute and in doing so to (quite selfishly) learn more about fiction writing as I do so. Sure, I warn my 'victims' what I do for a living, mostly so they don't get uptight when I spill a lot of red ink on their stuff (adding that it's to take or leave as they choose in most cases - this isn't 'RL' editing!). I try very hard not to come over as the 'one true beta', mind, because that simply isn't true. Others, however, react in ways that range from obvious disappointment when I don't gush, or at times sheer spite: 'who does she think she is?'. Ouch. It's been pointed out to me that I make typos and other blunders in my own writing: ones I immediately spot in other people's work. Dammit of *course* I do. Being an editor isn't the same thing as being a writer.
No, you weren't name dropping. I get pulled up occasionally with people I edit for who write about crime because I quote facts from one of my major clients, and get a rather snippish 'how would you know'. It's not easy to retort 'because I've just written a report or translated a document involving world experts on bioterrorism / counterfeiting / human trafficking, etc.'. It's not showing off: it happens to be what I do. If they then want readers to suspend belief, that's their call but usually they actually ask 'could this happen' and I'll give an honest answer even if it's not what they want to hear. And hell no, it's not a glamorous part of my profession for most things: I'm just the hired help with the skills they need. OK, it's fun being met at foreign airports by policemen and skipping customs, or having discussions around coffee with a group of ex-FBI and Secret Service guys, just as it must be to have dinner with other authors or to do a signing session. There's nothing wrong with being *proud* of what you do and enjoying the perks, but there's a world of difference between that and boasting.
So keep on being yourself... and I'm off to Amazon to find one of your books. Can't think I could pick one of the shelf in Switzerland unless you're translated into French or German, and I'd rather read the original anyway.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-28 06:06 am (UTC)I think part of it may be a feeling, from those standing outside the fence (like Caddie Woodlawn's father--and I have no idea why that image just popped into my head, but I'm leaving it), that Professional Authors don't like anything, that they sit in Olympian judgment and disdain mere mortals. Yes, silly, but I know that when
Another bit was something my friend
I think it's the fact that authors (like artists and musicians) interact with other people on two completely different level. On is in their books. The other is as a person. And since the first level of interaction reaches so many more people, including those who will never meet the human being and don't care, the second tends to get snowed under. Or people expect the human being to be somehow like the books--which is why the fan's mental image so frequently fails to match up with the writer's person.
I don't know if that makes any sense either. It's probably a little early in the day for me to be trying to elucidate abstruse mental constructs. But thank you, Peg, for making me think about it.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-28 08:38 am (UTC)Sold in stores everywhere!
Date: 2003-04-28 08:52 am (UTC)If you read either one, feel free to drop me a line to let me know what you think.
Cheers,
Peg
fangirly ramble (or ramblings on fangirliness et fame et al.)
Date: 2003-04-28 11:20 am (UTC)but i've always liked knowing what my favorite authors do in their 'real lives.' it makes them so much more real and someone makes me feel more of a connection to their work. (and the number of them who live in MN is another reason to be sad i moved...!) and when i get squee-ish and impressed, it's usually not because they're a published author, but because they're a published author in their spare time.
i love to write, and i'm pretty decent with words. i wrote a (very bad, very overemotional, very long) novel in high school. i wrote short stories and fanfic following that which were not halfbad. but i don't have the dedication to make anything come of it. i am too interested in frittering away my time being a social butterfly, or playing video games, or futzing with online nonsense, or sca projects, or whatever....
that used to bug me. i used to always wish i could write a novel. finally realized that that's okay: because really, i could write a novel, i'm just choosing not to - because there are other things that are higher priorities with me and which i would rather spend my free time on. no one can do everything. you write novels, which is really cool, and i create huge involved embroidered art, which is also cool. your cool thing is more highprofile, but not that different otherwise.
rambled a bit away from the topic there... but thoughts are good.
I wasn't fangirly till you posted that!
Date: 2003-04-28 11:43 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-28 12:31 pm (UTC):D
ROTFLMAO
Date: 2003-04-28 12:50 pm (UTC)Re: ROTFLMAO
Date: 2003-04-28 01:57 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-28 03:54 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-29 08:10 am (UTC)One of the advantages of being a librarian, especially a youth services librarian, is that I get to meet authors at conferences and such, and after a while, I lost the urge to genuflect when in the presence of an author. Respect, yes, as another human being. Idolize, no.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-04-29 09:45 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-05-02 05:09 pm (UTC)My first meeting-an-author experience was being in an elevator with a Famous Fantasy Author who wrote the sort of things that 13 year old girls (I was about that age) go into raptures over -- and finding her to be incredibly rude when I saw the name on her badge and started to, well, go into 13-yr-old raptures. It wasn't a great experience, but I think it may have been helpful to me, since it gave me a very firm separation in my head between The Work and The Author, and taught me that I might like one without liking the other.
I do like your books, very much, but I also like seeing you and your struggles with parenting and work and friendship and meaning. If I come up to introduce myself to you at some convention, it will be because of both your work and your self.