pegkerr: (Fealty with love valour with honour oath)
[personal profile] pegkerr
I have been thinking a lot about martyrdom. A number of things have prompted this. I happened to pick up a book last night in the church library, as I was waiting for Fiona's confirmation class to finish, which recorded people's last words before death, including many martyrs' last words. Someone pointed out the recent anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing, and I thought about Timothy McVeigh's burning passion, his conviction that when he went to his death, he was a martyr, striking a blow in revenge for the Branch Davidian martyrs. There is the Zacharias Moussoui trial, which I posted about previously. I was thinking more about his wish to be a martyr. I started thinking about Flight 93, since they ended the prosecution's case by playing the black box recording.

I have always wanted to understand the inexplicable, the point of view of the unknowable other that I cannot agree with myself. I know that Moussoui gloated as he listened to that recording of the last of Flight 93's doomed struggle. I remember in the weeks after that terrible day, our firm brought a human resources consultant to come in to talk to us about what happened that day. I remember I said during that meeting that I was reading the news compulsively, trying to understand. Trying to make sense. "Don't try," she said, "It doesn't make any sense at all."

But human beings hunger for meaning, to make a story that makes sense out of the baffling events of history. To understand the terrible, the unexplainable. We see that particularly with Flight 93. It was the one crumb of comfort we had in the midst of all that horror, and we claimed the passengers' heroism for our own. At least the terrorists didn't achieve all their goals. We rose up. We overturned their plans. We seized the day and saved the White House, or the Capitol. We died not as victims but as fighters. We did that.

I have thought about how American consoled themselves with the Flight 93 story. I have certainly seen how some have tried to use Flight 93 for their own purposes. President Bush tried to take the story and make it his: "Remember how the passengers decided to re-take the plane. They took a vote. They took a vote." [Insert speechifying about the virtues of democracy here]. Remember how he decided to co-opt Todd Beamer's catch phrase, "Let's roll"? [Which actually may be inaccurate: the September 11 commission tentatively concluded that he might have been saying "Roll it," meaning, roll the beverage cart forward to slam the cockpit doors.] I was angry at Bush for trying to take the passengers' heroism and drape it about himself, but I understood entirely his reason for doing so. Flight 93 was a powerful myth, and the President needed whatever tools of power he had at hand to help move a grieving nation forward. [Pity he chose to drive us forward to make war on a country that had NOTHING TO DO with September 11, but that's another post.]

Anyway, I had also read about and thought extensively about what the hijackers told themselves about martyrdom, when they planned their mission, when the leaders of Al-Quaeda talked about their mission afterwards. They were striking a blow for jihad. They were attacking the hated infidel. They were dying in glory. I know that the hijackers reasoned to themselves that the Muslims they killed in the World Trade Center (the ones they killed) would be counted by Allah as martyrs, too, to the jihad cause.

But I realized today that I have not thought much about what Al-Qaeda thinks about Flight 93. Do they see it as their failure? Do they look at the story of how those passengers rose up and wonder -- uh, did we maybe mistake what Allah thinks about all this? If we were right about all this, how did Allah overset our plans with this one flight?

No, I realized. When Al-Qaeda reads the transcript (and perhaps the Al-Qaeda sympathizers across the Middle East) they are not paying the slightest bit of attention to Todd Beamer praying the Lord's Prayer with a Verizon operator, or the desperate attempts of the passengers to ram open the cockpit doors.

No, they are too busy admiring how the hijackers, the jihadists, as they struck a blow against the infidels, died saying over and over Allah Akbar. It wasn't until today that I realized that both sides were laying claim to the myth for themselves, saying exactly the same thing about Flight 93: They died with a prayer on their lips; they failed, but they died fighting for Our Side.

The Flight 93 movie will be opening next week. The trailer moved me to tears (see it here, website is here).

Should I go see it? Should you?

Here is an interesting editorial upon the question. By all accounts, it is an extremely respectful treatment, made with the full support of the passengers' families, done by a director, Paul Greengrass, who has done a good job with very difficult emotionally-fraught work before, notably "Bloody Sunday," a documentary-style drama about a 1972 civil rights march in Northern Ireland in which 13 people were killed. The studio has said that they will donate 10% of the opening weekend gross to the Flight 93 memorial. [Edited to add: here is an article about the pains that the movie makers took. The pilot and co-pilots were played by actual United pilots. Two of the five flight attendant actresses were actual former flight attendants. Ben Sliney, the head of the FAA's Command Center on that day, who was actually reporting for his first day of work at that job on September 11, played himself, as did other FAA workers. Here is another article about the politics of making the film.]

Should it be seen? There is the temptation to use that story, even perhaps twisting it a little in the process to enhance the passengers' heroism, because it is so desperately powerful, resonating deeply in the gut. Offering us the seductive consolation of vicarious heroism, too. Example: The movie's slogan is, "Forty people sat down as strangers. They rose up as one." Which is very powerful, true. And yet, if you can manage to look at it coldly as a claim, that is probably not true. We don't know if indeed all the passengers voted to attack, and there were probably at least some that weren't rushing down that aisle, but cringing back, doing nothing more than hoping desperately that somehow, against all odds, that others would save them and they would survive.

And yet, and yet--there were still those who fought, knowing that hope was slim to nonexistant. You who have read my journal for a long time know how I love Lord of the Rings. One of the things that Tolkien admired most about Anglo-Saxon culture was the courage that they honored in battle, that rises up when all hope is lost. He wrote about that in the tale of the battle of Helm's Deep:
"The end will not be long," said the King. "But I will not end here, taken like an old badger in a trap...When dawn comes, I will bid men sound Helm's horn, and I will ride forth. Will you ride then with me, son of Arathorn? Maybe we will cleave a road, or make such an end as will be worth a song--if any be left to sing of us hereafter."

"I will ride with you," said Aragorn.
I am sure Todd Beamer would have followed Theoden. And Tom Burnett, Jr. And Mark Bingham. And Jeremy Glick, brandishing his butter knife. And Cee Cee Lyles, flinging her pots of boiling water. The LA Times article linked above reasons, then, that for our culture, the Flight 93 movie is like the ballad, the song, that Theoden longed to have told of his end, after his death. Understanding it that way, I think I can go see it. [Remembering, however, that as far as the other side is concerned, we're the orcs.]

Read a fuller account of the story of Flight 93 here.

[Poll #713397]

And for further thinking on this, I recommend that you go re-read the chapter "Foregathering Song" in Diane Duane's novel Deep Wizardry. That is absolutely the best artistic response I ever saw to the story of Flight 93. Written sixteen years before it happened.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 02:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] juliansinger.livejournal.com
Once I get home I may comment on the meat of your post, because it's worth thinking on.

Anyway, I, personally, am not ready to watch a movie about this sort of thing. I didn't have nightmares after 9/11, but I did find I was jittery and shaky for a long time afterwards, most particularly when I was watching tv/focusing on the images too much.

So. Don't want to watch something like this. Not yet. But I respect the artistic attempt.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 02:17 am (UTC)
snippy: Lego me holding book (Default)
From: [personal profile] snippy
On Moussouai, the best reason to execute him is so that no terrorist group takes a schoolful of children hostage, and demands his release in return for theirs.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-26 03:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] qwyneth.livejournal.com
You know, I don't believe in the death penalty, preventative war, or fulfilling his wish to be martyred...but that's damn compelling.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 02:19 am (UTC)
ext_22302: (Default)
From: [identity profile] ivyblossom.livejournal.com
I went with "no" because that was my gut reaction; I have no desire to see this film at all. I do indeed think it's exploitative, however. I also think it's encouraging the kind of fetishizization of this event that has already become normalized.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 02:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ali-wildgoose.livejournal.com
I'm torn over this issue the same way I'm torn about everything relating to 9/11. There are many intelligent, reasonable people pointing out intelligent, reasonable problems with the version of events most of us have long accepted, and I find the entire issue to be incredibly troubling. No one wants to be a conspiracy theorist, but then again, no one wants to take things on blind faith, either.

So I'm not sure about this film. Part of me thinks it's a fitting tribute to some very brave people. Part of me worries that it will only add further unmerited credence to a false narrative.

...

*sighs*

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 12:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jlh.livejournal.com
Ali, I'm replying to you because I love what you've said here.

[livejournal.com profile] bowdlerized and I saw the trailer, unannounced, before seeing Tristram Shandy though I heard it was frequently played before Inside Man of all things. The crowd fell uneasily silent and when it was over we basically all said to our neighbor, "There is no way I'm going to see that." In the local controversy started by some theaters pulling the trailer Owen Glieberman (film critic for EW) said some blah blah blah about films that are about serious things. But is this about the real issues, etc, or hagiography? And why do they need to replay for the 107th time footage of the second plane crash, something I personally consider to be basically a snuff film and an image I actively avoid seeing? Even the Zapruder film famously does not contain the moment of impact (the car had gone behind a barrier for that moment).

I don't think it's weak or closed-minded to say that there is nothing I need to see in this film. I'd rather continue to read up on the history that lead us to the event to see where and how we can pull this train back up on the tracks but then, I'm an historian or at least an apprentice one. And somehow, I doubt it will be grossing highly here in NYC, where our reaction always seems to be a little bit different.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 02:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ali-wildgoose.livejournal.com
I think that there's sometimes a need to watch things that are unpleasant or disturbing, but having seen far too much of 9/11 first hand I'm resentful of how footage and other material has been coopted by those who weren't so directly affected. I sometimes feel that for much of the country, watching the towers fall over and over again in movie trailers is akin to watching protesters being run down by tanks in Tiananmen Square -- a galvanizing turning point in history, but largely unrelated to their own, daily lives.

Which isn't to say that only New Yorkers have a right to be affected by what happened to the WTC, but rather to suggest that more attention should be paid to the people who were directly affected by those events. I often feel that in all the clamor to remember the heroes of 9/11 in films and other tributes, no one thinks to ask what the locals might have to say.

Though it begs the question of how the families of the victems play into all this mess.....

I probably should stop coopting Peg's journal and make a post about this myself, however much I'm sure most people don't want to read it.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 03:34 pm (UTC)
ext_22302: (Default)
From: [identity profile] ivyblossom.livejournal.com
I'm resentful of how footage and other material has been coopted by those who weren't so directly affected.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 02:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hillarygayle.livejournal.com
An interesting point you make, that this movie may be something like Theoden's song of heroism. Up until I read this, I'd been taking it like a cynic: as someone's crass attempt to make money off the heroism of others. That's a problem in our society: we're all so jaded that we see only the selfish intentions sometimes, rather than the more noble intent that may be behind something. I'm surprised to find I've done this, since I consider myself a consummate optimist.

I still don't know if I'll see it, but I am definitely waffling now. Neither I nor my husband had thought of it this way, and you've given us food for thought.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 02:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ann-totusek.livejournal.com
I'll absolutely see it. I won't see it for political reasons, and I won't come out of the theater saying "See, this just shows how right/wrong the Repulicans/Democrats or George Bush/Al Gore (or some representative Dem) is/are about Iraq/AlQaeda/Afghanistan. I'll see it because the actions taken by the passengers were heroic, and I would like to think that in a similar situation if I were traveling alone I'd be right in there rushing the cockpit with the rest of them. I want to contribute to honoring their memories by seeing it, and prepare myself for the idea that I should be willing to do the same. I think that's why we watch a lot of action movies- not just for the excitement, but to put ourselves in the protagonists' place, and mentally prepare for a moment that may never come to our own lives. If I've lived through it in my head a number of times and already made my decisions about what I want to do, if the situation does actually occur my odds of doing what I believe to be right increase.

At the DMSFS (Des Moines Science Fiction Society) meeting immediately after 9/11, it had already become apparent what had occurred on Flight 93, and we toasted their bravery at dinner and wished for the courage to stand up ourselves if needed.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 03:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] origamilady.livejournal.com
What [livejournal.com profile] ann_totusek said . . . .
plus, I had a friend who died in the collapse of the two towers and my ex went to school with Todd Beamer and his wife (Wheaton College). That whole period of time was rather rife with "bad things happening" both personally and (of course) to our nation. Watching this is a way of coming to terms with it all.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 04:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dd-b.livejournal.com
I guess at this point we pretty much know that the passengers really *did* try to take back flight 93, and it crashed hurting nobody on the ground because of that. What I *really* admire is their learning enough to make the paradigm shift through cell-phone calls, and doing it that quickly. Given an understanding of what was going on, trying to take the plane back is ethically *and* selfishly required -- no conflict. It still takes considerable courage to start the fight, of course.

I'm very ambivalent about seeing the movie because I pretty much expect it to be filled with Hollywood bull-shit and flag-waving and tear-jerking and political posturing in some position or another. Maybe it'll be much better than that; that would be a good thing.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 04:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elthionesse.livejournal.com
What an insightful post. I stumbled upon it on my "friends of friends" page, and don't feel I can miss the opportunity to add you to my own friends list. Some of the things I've thought before (like recognizing that we are the orcs from certain points of view), but it wouldn't have occurred to me to compare this film with Theoden's ballad. At least not until I saw it, and assuming that it is in fact as respectful as it's supposed to be.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 11:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pegkerr.livejournal.com
Sure, friend away, and welcome to my journal.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 04:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] morganmalfoy.livejournal.com
I put yes, but I don't think I'll watch it any time soon. I don't think I was struck especially hard by 9/11, though I obviously found it upsetting. I remember that day and the next so clearly. And like you said, there was a commercial on during House last night and I started crying, it just felt like something being ripped open. I would like to see it, but probably not when it's in theaters.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 05:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leiabelle.livejournal.com
I didn't know that the movie was done with the permission/support of the families. That makes me feel better about it, but I probably won't go see it anyway.

That's a good point about Theoden's speech. I hadn't thought of it that way before. Those types of LotR passages are among the very few bits of literature that actually bring tears to my eyes. ♥

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 11:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pegkerr.livejournal.com
What's more, 10% of the opening gross is going to be donated to the Flight 93 memorial.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 05:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cph9680.livejournal.com
Not gonna see it. Sorry, don't wanna sound to commie or judgemntal, but on September 11, this country got exactly what it deserved. And unless the lessons presented on that day are learned, it'll happen again!

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 07:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ann-totusek.livejournal.com
You sound profoundly judgmental and foolish as well. No country, ours included, could ever do anything shy of intentional genocide to deserve what happened on that day. Had they assassinated political leaders responsible for the policies that they hated, they would at least have been making an attempt at targeting their actions at the people responsible. Instead they targeted thousands of people who did nothing more wrong than getting up to go to work. They were nothing more than bigoted fools too short-sighted to see the effect their actions would have on the people that they had the temerity to suggest they represent. Even the IRA has bought a clue at this point. They've managed, as Hamas and Iran are both currently doing, to alienate many people who might otherwise be willing to come to the defense of Palestinian people over injustices that they suffer. While I support equal rights of Palestinians in the state of Israel, I can't much blame Israel for the overzealous tactics it uses in detaining Palestinians it suspects of being involved in terrorist activities. They're trying to protect their citizens from deadly explosions in malls, restaurants, buses, and hotels. If the terrorists targeting civilians would stop, they would find that the responses from the Israeli government would tone down. The same is true of the insurgents in Iraq, except they're even dumber- they're going after essentially their own people because they don't like something that someone _else_ is doing. That's like a parent punishing their own child for something that someone else's kid did- unjust, ineffective, and guaranteed to not end well for all involved.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 12:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pegkerr.livejournal.com
On September 11, this country got exactly what it deserved.

What a, er, remarkable system of morality you seem to have.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 01:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] joelrosenberg.livejournal.com
Remarkable? Sure. Unusual? Nah. (Not that you claimed it was unusual.)

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 06:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cph9680.livejournal.com
Sorry, I have no defense for the things I think and the things I see.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 06:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lenora-rose.livejournal.com
Unless you can say that every person who dies in the towers and the Pentagon did personally represent and was personally responsible for all the things America as a nation has done wrong, and yet is responsible for none of the things America has ever done right, your judgement is unfair. Perhaps the U.S. did deserve a wake-up call, but not this way, and not those people.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 08:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cph9680.livejournal.com
Obviously we needed something else, cos it only took about 5 minutes after 9.11 to go back to the same ignorant, slovenly, greedy, hypocritical lifestyle that represents the majority of Americans

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 08:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lenora-rose.livejournal.com
I don't have remotely the eloquence to answer such a facile, cynical, response.

Fortunately, someone else does (http://matociquala.livejournal.com/780506.html).

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 05:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sarekofvulcan.livejournal.com
Interesting: I'm about to reach that point in the book with Ael. It's going to resonate a lot differently to me now.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 12:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pegkerr.livejournal.com
After you read it, post here and let me know whether you agree with me.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 03:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sarekofvulcan.livejournal.com
I re-skimmed it last night, and I'm not sure if I draw the same parallels you do.

Besides, she touched more directly on 9/11 in... umm, I think it was Wizards at War, but it might have been the book before it. And there was some musing in Stealing the Elf-King's Roses as well...

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 06:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lenora-rose.livejournal.com
Apropos of noting; Beautiful Icon. I'd forgotten that particular piece until I saw it, but then I could quote it all almost verbatim.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 07:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sarekofvulcan.livejournal.com
Same here. That's why I grabbed it. :-)

I so love the Loyalty Userpics program. :-)

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 08:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lenora-rose.livejournal.com
So you don't object if I steal it (to whom do I attribute it? Besides Ms. L'Engle.)

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 10:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sarekofvulcan.livejournal.com
I'm currently attributing it to [livejournal.com profile] gothmog, but I'm not entirely sure that's correct. I got it from someone else who had tagged it that way...

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 09:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] catmcroy.livejournal.com
I love Diana Duane.

I will not be watching the movie. I remember 9/11 all too well - I was hugely pregnant and trying very hard to make sense of it all. To figure out HOW human beings could do that to each other. To figure out what the hell kind of world I was bringing a child into (and what happened to the twin towers is perilously close to a real world hell). My daughter was born exactly a week after.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 02:19 pm (UTC)
sraun: portrait (Default)
From: [personal profile] sraun
It's not a movie we'll go out of our way to see in the theater, but will probably catch on TV when it shows up there. We only see 3-6 movies/year in the theater - there's a lot of stuff that's higher on the Want To See list than it is.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 07:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lenora-rose.livejournal.com
I don't know how I feel about this. I don't feel it's exploitative; I feel there is a place in our culture for art about current events. But it may be too soon in two ways. First, too soon for the details to have come clear. Ali_wildgoose above mentioned the current gaps in our knowledge of the events of the day - even if we're sure about Flight 93, it may not be set in the right setting.

Not that it would be the first movie about a dire and true tragedy that muffs up history, or even the real point and poignancy of the story, but that's where the second reason it may be too soon comes in; it may hurt more to get things wrong (Expecially with an excess of Hurrah!America and Hollywood bravery in place of everyday heroism) than it does to, say, write yet another movie about the Titanic disaster.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 09:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aeditimi.livejournal.com
For me it's too soon, *and* too exploitative, *and* I couldn't watch without risking another bout of depression, *and* the cynic in me still believes the american military shot down 93 and overstated the success of the passengers' revolt--and whether or not that last is true, it would preoccupy me through the movie. Someone said that the movie "Pearl Harbor" was too soon, to raw for them, fifty years after the fact. I still have nightmares about the people jumping from the towers. I can't stomach this movie. In some ways I wish I could, but I will not see it in the theatre, and I may never rent it, either.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-20 10:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sienamystic.livejournal.com
I am not yet at the point where I could watch it. I have, perhaps too strongly, attatched myself to Flight 93, because of where the plane might have been headed. I work across the street from the White House. The plane was headed either to the Capitol or to the White House, and every time I see something about those passengers, I think, "They might have saved my life." I don't brood on it, but I remember the plume of smoke that I saw in the sky from the Pentagon, and I am so very thankful that I didn't experience anything more directly.

(no subject)

Date: 2006-04-26 04:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] qwyneth.livejournal.com
I completely understand. My best friend was at her internship down at the Capitol that day. I remember standing on the roof of my dorm, with tanks at every street corner, watching the Pentagon burn and worrying whether she would be next.

And then...I talk to people--like my beloved sig. other--who cry about Flight 93 and forget that DC and the Pentagon were even hit.

I will probably force myself to watch. I don't think it should have been made. Too soon, too raw.

Flight 93 heroes

Date: 2006-05-23 08:17 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
That some Flight 93 passengers "fought like warrior poets" is encouraging for our future. For surely “we the people” are able (but are we willing?) to storm the bridge of the ship of state, and seize the helm from postmodernist hijackers. See www.tell-usa.org/flight93

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